Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sonic Robo Blast 2


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was keep. Some of the biggest ballot-stuffing I've ever seen, but the numerous keep votes from very new users stand opposite very few editors supporting deletion and no overwhelming arguments to do so. --Sam Blanning(talk) 20:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Sonic Robo Blast 2


Fan made freeware game. No assertion or evidence of notability aside from the fact it looks nice. --InShaneee 15:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The article in question is updated rather frequently and contains a lot of information; a quick glance at the edit history will confirm this. If you like, I could start a section mentioning where SRB2 has appeared in various magazines if you need notability. BlazeHedgehog 17:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions.   -- ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk  to Nihonjo e  20:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Merge with other fan-made games into a new article such as Sonic the Hedgehog fan-made games. . ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjo e  20:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That would probably just turn into a spamming ground for makers of games such as this one. --InShaneee 21:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I see no real reason to delete this article. The game itself has a large fanbase. --Anonymous. 19:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * User's only edits are in this AfD. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep Sonic Robo Blast 2 is one of the biggest and most notable fangames on the internet. It sustains a huge fanbase, and has been popular for years now. I'm one of the major people in the community, and I've met two people randomly in real life who know me from my work on SRB2. If that isn't a notable fangame, I don't know what is. -MysticEsper 23:17, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Almost all of this user's edits have been on Sonic fangames; is involved with the game. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. Digiku 23:23, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Involved with the game. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. Most definetly keep it. This project has scaled to monstrous porportions, and this page helps to keep that alive. We also have the right to brag that we get more google bots than ANY other sonic fangame, which shows popularity right there. =P -Spazzo
 * Two of this user's three edits are this AfD and the article. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not in the business of promoting games, i.e. "keep that alive". It reports on notability, not creates it. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep notable. The only thing it's that, maybe, a good cleaning up would help, but to delete the whole article is unnecessary. --Neigel von Teighen 23:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep SRB2 has netplay. Not even SEGA has done Sonic with netplay so that fact alone means SRB2 is pretty significant. -- TheDarkArchon 23:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. SRB2 not only is one of the best, most bug-free and fun Sonic fan-games of them all, it's also a notable DOOM mod. The article is also updated often with good information by a large active community, so there are really no reasons for deletion. Also, do note that this game is still in production, has a fanbase which increases every day, and is a rather solid project, arguably more solid than the current status of the series it is based on, probably unlike most projects of the same kind. However, were another project to meet these circumstances, I'd see that keeping an article on it would be reasonable as well. However, I do not believe you may run across projects of this magnitude too often. -Neo Chaotikal
 * User's only edit. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep I think over 20,000 downloads each month keeps it out of the 'fan fodder' category, as well as being an 8+ year project. After all, if this is to be deleted, the Doom Legacy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_Legacy ) and Zelda Classic ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda_Classic ) entries should be deleted as well. -SSNTails
 * User's two edits is in this AfD. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * User is also the main programmer/sprite artist for SRB2 -- TheDarkArchon 21:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. I think everyone else covered it pretty well. -SRB2-Playah
 * User's only edit. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep SRB2 in itself is a massive 3D fangame. Few other fangames can boast the community and fan-base that SRB2 has.  A good hunk of the community was forwarded here BY this article.  The only problem with the article is lack of content, as to what the game has.  On top of that, this game boasts the ability to be easily edited to make it an entirely different game.  Might I recommend that you play the game before deciding it's just a random freeware fangame? -- Dark Warrior
 * User's only edit. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, Wikipedia is not here to promote games. It reports on notable things, not creates notability for them. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. The constant turnover of user-created levels demonstrates SRB2's status as an autonomous entity of notable following. --Oogaland 00:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: User's 17th edit. --InShaneee 20:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are too many fans who would want to know about this game, this wikipedia article gives...*some* good info about it. The game is really great too, the other good thing about it, is that you can make modifications AND play netgames. The community is pretty huge as well...and I can't think of any other reasons, you guys stole the rest! :( --KingofFlames
 * Note: User's 11th edit. --InShaneee 20:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete: Fan games are inherintly non notable, also I'd ask the mods to notice at how many "Keep" votes are players of the games.Deathawk 01:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And your point about the players? That is a weak argument and is just saying "You're are player of this thus your opinion doesn't count" which strikes me as a Jack Thompson-esque argument. I would also like to see a reason why they are "inherintly non notable"? -- TheDarkArchon 01:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's be civil, here. Comparing anyone with that man isn't very polite. --Shadow Hog 02:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment: SSNTails and TheDarkArchon made some very good points. -- Anonymous
 * Most of this user's edits has been in this AfD. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sonic: Time Attacked 2. Fangames are not inheritently non-notable since a lot more effort goes into their creation than other fan products, such as fan-fiction. In effect, they're fully-fledged (if unofficial) games themselves, and last I checked Wikipedia was perfectly open to that, given enough information about it (of which this article has plenty), or notability (do a Google test; around 300,000 results, and 893 group results, which, for a fangame, is pretty good). While it's true that vanity shouldn't be tolerated, this isn't mere vanity here. --Shadow Hog 02:23, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep Game is a rather large project and has been around for as long as I remember. Has been noted in quite a few mediums, has acquired a large fan base, and the article covers the game quite well. --Guess Who 03:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment: Oh boy, a whole lot of meatpuppets here. I've left notes for the closing admin and the AfdAnons template. I have no opinion. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 03:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, most of them were brought by Blaze posting this topic on the message board: http://sepwich.com/ssntails/mb/viewtopic.php?t=3672 - Obviously if that kind of thing happens, you're going to get a bunch of meatpuppets. Shouldn't shock anyone. However, at least a few of those meatpuppets are making valid points, which is the entire objective of one of these discussions, so don't ignore them simply because they're obviously biased. Everyone on Earth is bias at some level. -MysticEsper 03:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "So, hey. If you give a crap about the Wikipedia entry (and you should, there's quite a lot of information on it)". Not really the best thing to say, as that implies that they can't keep their information elsewhere, and thus are using Wikipedia as a storage for that information; this would violate What Wikipedia is not. I don't care about this article, but I'm not comfortable with people just coming in here and dicating policy out of simple interest in the article's subject. Those people solely care about the article, not about Wikipedia. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 06:13, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * We have our own Wiki for tutorials, specific information, and fancruft, so it's not like we use Wikipedia as a free host. I completely agree with Wikipedia's ideals and policies, and use the site as a reference on a regular basis. Honestly, I think the article on SRB2 kinda sucks, and needs to be reworked quite a bit, as it's accumulated a fair amount of useless garbage over time. I just don't think it should be outright deleted, as this is not a vanity article, and there is interest in the game beyond the overly vocal core fanbase. -MysticEsper 06:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks for clarifying the info webhost thing. I've accordingly striked out my concerns. I wouldn't worry too much about the article with what we have now; only two people voted to delete. Even discounting the meatpuppets, that's not enough consensus to delete. '  (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 07:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I do hope that the closing admin will take into account the off-site vote mongering mentioned above. I'd support a complete re-vote should consensus be unclear. --InShaneee 03:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * We're not all meatpuppets, you know. --Shadow Hog 11:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep: SRB2 is the best fangame around. It's Wikipedia should not be deleted. I make a level pack for SRB2, and I'm proud to. Sure, this needs updating, but it's quite an information place for people just starting to play SRB2. -GCFreak123 20:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: User's 3rd edit. --InShaneee 20:31, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep per Shadow Hog. - Wickning1 14:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: <100 edits. Has essentially only edited AfDs. --InShaneee 20:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I posted a short vote since Shadow Hog said it all, but note that I'd never heard of this game before. I'm newly registered and have been contributing to lots of the Japan-Related Deletions. Wickning1 14:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: - As Google results are often brought into VfD's, the term "Sonic Robo Blast 2" (including quote marks) turns up 39,200 results -- TheDarkArchon 01:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep — It's slightly noticeable and while the article is outdated, it contains a lot of infomation. Ðra 09:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep: We have articles about websites, webcomics, and other such internet things. Why not this?  It's obviously popular enough and complex enough to be considered a major internet entity, and therefore likely deserves its own article.  Just my two cents.  I.M.Fearless 14:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: User's 21st edit. --InShaneee 03:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. Anything with over 300 thousend Google results is rather noteworthy compared to how many results the vast majority of Wikipedia articles get. If you don't believe me, go to Wikipedia's home page, click on "Random article," and google the article's title. --MarkGyver 22:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: User's 3rd edit. --InShaneee 03:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: Regarding TheDarkArchon's post, "Sonic Robo Blast 2" is often misspelled on websites as "Sonic Robo Blaster 2", "Sonic Robot Blast 2", and similar variations. It is also often referred to by its four-digit acronym, "SRB2". A better method might be to search "SRB2" OR "Sonic Robo Blast 2", which returns 84,900 results. As the co-creator and head of this game, I could honestly care less if this Wikipedia article stayed or not - the game does not need a wiki article to be notable or popular. This article was even created without our permission by a fan of the game - we did not post this ourselves. It's fine if it stays, but we really won't care if it's gone. Ssntails 22:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I want to see those magazine mentions and such. Kotepho 15:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * NB: User's 2347th edit, at least according to the lagging toolserver. Kotepho 15:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. The sheer scale of this thing makes it notable, in comparison to other fan made games which have been kept. Jumbo Snails 20:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep - This game is one of the most in-depth modifications of the DOOM engine, the only massively multiplayer and 3D Sonic fangame, and (as far as MysticEsper is concerned) has press coverage. The article itself needs to be reworked since WP:ISNOT a web guide. But out of all the fangame articles at Wikipedia, this one deserves to stay. --LBMixPro&lt;Sp e ak 04:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep Presuming that fangames are non-notable at the outset is a fallacy of definition. Regardless, the article should stay; it's too big of a game. From a prorammer's point of view, I've looked at the source code and it looks interesting enough to warrant some mention.  This is much more noteworthy than Sonic Gaiden, which is so small it is about to be merged/deleted. --DavidHOzAu 10:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.