Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sonita Lontoh (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  MBisanz  talk 01:51, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Sonita Lontoh
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log )

Relisting after the last Afd was skewed by confirmed sockpuppet accounts. Apologize in advance for amount of text ahead...

Reason #1: Not notable coverage under WP:NBIO. Some limited coverage of this person but very limited in-depth media coverage. Of the meaningful coverge of Sonita Lontoh, it's almost all from questionable sources like alumni blogs, conference speaker bios, and "news sites" that don't appear to have true editorial oversight. Other coverage of this person is entirely based on information provided by the subject and fails WP:IS.

For the major news outlets: the sources from CNN, Bloomberg, Forbes, and BBC, all are WP:TRIVIALMENTION. For example that don't touch on meaningful professional contributions, see their titles: "Five Executives on How They Unplug", "avoid money talks", "the lifestyles of the young and ultra-rich", and "Here's How To Avoid An Impersonal Hiring Process." article. None of these articles establish this person as a notable contributor in their field and just include a quick snippet/quote from this person off topic from their professional contributions.

Subject did get coverage in Tatler Indonesia but that's a gossip mag and not a source for quality technology coverage.

Reason #2: Many details lack verifiability. Many of the details in this article are not verifiable and fail WP:NRV. The detail about John Kerry is not cited from any neutral source and doesn't state an official event or date. I cannot find WP:IS source for this. The same is true for the Global Emerging Leader Under 40 award; who issued this award and when? It's concerning that sources cite this award without stating which body issued it; this make the award questionable as well as the sources citing it. For the TechWomen committee member, what committee and what years did they serve? No source with this information. I cannot find a source for this that not a bio of Lontoh. The most cited source in this article is Asian American Press which appears to be a WP:NEWSBLOG without fact checking. As a result, this article likely doesn't meet WP:BLP.

Reason #3: Some claims that appear notable at first glance are not that notable: For the AAPI Women Champion of Change, she was not an awardee but an attendee of the event. Attending an event does not equal notability. The TechWomen is a program that anyone can sign up to be a mentor for; there's an online application. See note above about committee role. The Asian Hall of Fame award doesn't seem notable as there is not many if any WP:IS coverage on this award. It might just be starting out or something because Google returns mostly PR Newswire press releases. The Silicon Valley Asia Technology Alliance, which presumes notability of Lontoh as is one of the org's co-founders, isn't very notable. The top google results for the org are their press releases hosted on pr web, a Tech in Asia article, her wikipedia page, and then her linkedin. It also doesn't appear to be around anymore as the website is broken, fails WP:NTEMP

Ew3234 (talk) 19:58, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Ew3234 (talk) 19:58, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:05, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indonesia-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:05, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:05, 21 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep. I largely agree with the critique of the article as laid out above, but my view is that there are sources that would allow a decent article to be written. I believe that the coverage across Tatler Indonesia  (which IMO, if it is reliable, is reliable for this article), Asian Fortune, Jawa Pos and Prestige Indonesia mentioned in the earlier AfD amounts to adequate coverage in independent reliable sources to meet GNG. I've found a couple of possible further sources:
 * "Breaking the Mold: Women in Additive Manufacturing" by Rehana Begg, Machine Design. Mar 2021, Vol. 93 Issue 3, p24-26. (Lontoh was one of three panellists at the event that this is about, but I don't have full text access to see the extent of any relevant coverage)
 * "They didn't mean to be discriminatory" by Don Loepp, Plastics News 4/1/2019, Vol. 30 Issue 4, p6 (Again, I don't have full access. Apparently "It presents views of Sonita Lontoh, global head and vice president of marketing for 3D print and digital manufacturing at HP Inc., on plastics industry.")
 * also, a newswire item so won't add to the case for GNG, but I saw that this was published on 21 April.
 * Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:41, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hey BennyOnTheLoose, great to see you again. The Machine Design and Plastics News appear to be industry/trade publications, which I recall are questionble sources (though I cannot find the policy or essay atm). I think I commented on the other articles on the 1st Afd except the Jawa Pos article. That source reads as promotional and I question it as a WP:IS because it states "Sonita was named a 'Global Emerging Leader under 40' in the United States" which makes me question how well this was fact checked because no awarding body is named. Googling 'Global Emerging Leader under 40' doesn't turn up any answers either. Also, do you have any sources that address the verifiability issues? Ew3234 (talk) 01:13, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi again. We obviously have a difference on opinion on the reliability of sources. Let's hope that other editors help the debate along. The verifiability issues would be best dealt with by removing unverified information from the article, I think. This PR piece says that it was the The Indonesian Professionals Association (IPA) that made the "Global Emerging Leader under 40 Award." If this article and award are kept then I think it's better to source the awarding body to a PR item than not to mention who the award was from at all. Happy to be corrected on any point if I'm directed to the relevant policy. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 07:25, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
 * +1 to letting others weigh in. Not sure the PR site passes the sniff test. Searching the org name and the award name together only returns a single Google result: that PR peice. That's a massive red flag that there's something shady with the PR peice, and emblematic of my verifiability concerns with these poor sources. Ew3234 (talk) 19:38, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kichu🐘 Need any help? 14:59, 29 April 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 21:05, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak delete. Above is a quick-ish source assessment table, which doesn't show enough for notability. Additionally, BennyOnTheLoose's sources don't contribute, either as trade publications or primary prnewswire. Best, KevinL ( aka L235 · t · c) 22:43, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CommanderWaterford (talk) 10:10, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete - The Asian Fortune article is the most convinincing support, but only in that she was selected - as a bundle of direct quotes it doesn't really count as coverage. Does not meet WP:BIO. AntiVan (talk) 11:23, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Assessment of sources does not show that the subject meets WP:NBIO. MrsSnoozyTurtle 10:52, 26 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.