Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sony Ericsson T700 (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep.  Sandstein  06:09, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Sony Ericsson T700
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

3 years ago the AfD was closed due to two votes, each clearly WP:GOOGLEHITS (I double checked as I thought it was 2007, but no, those votes came from 2017). Ok, let's try it again. I don't see any reliable reviews, just some user reviews and reviews at some minor sites which don't inspire confidence (remember, many reviews on the Internet are paid-for promos...). is one of the 'best', and frankly, the only Englsh-language review that is more than few sentences/not clearly user written - but what makes Phonearena reliable? What makes anyone assume they don't take payments for their reviews? (And even if we conclude it is acceptable, we need more than one source for GNG). PS. Ping the nominator of the prior AfD User:Rædwald. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 05:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Products-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:52, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 03:30, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Technology-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:30, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 18:37, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - 's Google news search turns up a lot of reviews. Nom has no basis for their assumption that all are unreliable. I assume the previous positions were based on more than WP:GOOGLEHITS. ~Kvng (talk) 21:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:GOOGLEHIT is not very useful, indeed, but isn't this what you are doing by linking a generic Google search? Which of those reviews are reliable? Did you control for user-written reviews, forums, blogs and pages which just have that keyword but don't contain any content except advertising? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 01:06, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , no, I'm not counting hits just noting that Google points to enough information about the product to write a competent article. ~Kvng (talk) 14:14, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per previous AfD Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  21:37, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Weak delete Keep - can someone point me to a reliable review for this product? - GizzyCatBella  🍁  01:46, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, here is the first one on that list. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  04:55, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you - GizzyCatBella  🍁  06:56, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Computer Bild is a WP:RS, but a 90-word text is hardly in-depth coverage (it would be one-third of a WP:STUB... and in other words, it is WP:TRIVIAL). Can you point to at least two texts that are both reliable and in-depth? (GNG requires non-trivial coverage in multiple reliable sources). --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:33, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, here, here and here. I haven't expanded the article with these because they're not English. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  07:39, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The first one is from Focus (German magazine) and appears in-depth, good find! Second one seems however to be also very short and I can't find much about the site, do you think it is reliable? I have similar concerns re  (too short, does not appear reliable). So so far we have one good review. Well, we are halfway there - if someone can present one more, I'd be happy to withdraw this nom :) --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  09:12, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I suppose if we're totally stuck we could redirect to Sony Mobile. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  17:32, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , Why do you think we're stuck? There are no delete votes here. What we're dealing with here is a nom with WP:ZEAL. ~Kvng (talk) 19:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * What zeal? I am asking for a second reliable review, to satisfy GNG. The only zeal I see is in personal attacks directed against people who are trying to reduce the flood of spam and enforce some minimum standards here :( --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * A beg your pardon Kvng!? WP:ZEAL? It's unfortunate that I have to remind you about our rules. You know what they are, I hope, so please stop or even better cross that silly comment of yours. Coming back to the SUBJECT, I'm reading more on Piotr's arguments.. I was trying to dig deeper and find more as far as that particular phone model, but I can't locate anything else, specially in English. I'm beginning to consider revising my vote again. Sorry folks, but this one is tricky...- GizzyCatBella  🍁  06:14, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Non-English sources are fine, but I don't see anything in Polish that's in-depth, the best (most repliable) is a paragraph-long entry at wp.pl . --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:19, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , please don't take my comment as a personal attack. It is just that renominating articles that previously survived AfD and confronting Keep !voters in discussion are behaviors indicative of WP:ZEAL. ~Kvng (talk) 15:03, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , please don't take my comment as a personal attack, but criticizing people who respond to arguments seems like one of the most pathetic way of saying "la la la I don't hear that" that I can think of. If someone can't take constructive criticism, than a collaborative project is probably not a good place for them. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  03:03, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * , don't worry. I'll be fine. I can clarify by saying that I'm picking up some WP:BLUDGEONing behavior here. To your credit, you're focused on policy and you're dismissive but not hostile about it. But, as the linked essay says, confronting everyone who disagrees with you isn't likely to get what you want. A good delete nomination doesn't need an advocate to reach a delete consensus. Discussion is good but criticism just feeds the divisiveness that already is doing quite well here at AfD. I appreciate that I'm not following my own advice in this regard at the moment. So it is. ~Kvng (talk) 14:20, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm holding my view on keeping this article.. - GizzyCatBella  🍁  02:20, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.