Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/South African National Schools Moot Court Competition


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep due to media sources found which make the article topic meet WP:N and WP:V. Please make use of them in the article ASAP or the article may be nominated for deletion again. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 05:02, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

South African National Schools Moot Court Competition

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Non-notable event. No wide coverage on the internet (for what that is worth relating to South Afrika). Night of the Big Wind talk  15:01, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 17:01, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 17:01, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 17:02, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete per above. Only "About 156 results" on Google search, no results elsewhere.  Hazard-SJ  ㋡   23:26, 17 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep The sources covering the event are notable, preeminent and diverse with due regard that the inaugural event was held in 2011. A selection of some of the sources:

South African governmental departments:
 * Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, Republic of South Africa
 * Department of Basic Education, Republic of South Africa
 * Provincial Department of Education, KwaZulu Natal, Republic of South Africa

South African statutory bodies:
 * Law Society of South Africa

Public universities:
 * University of the Western Cape
 * University of Pretoria
 * University of Cape Town
 * University of Venda

National Newspapers:
 * Mail & Gaurdian

Local Newspapers:
 * The Centurion
 * Knysna Plett Herald

Online Newspapers:
 * South Africa the Good News

Legal newspapers:
 * Legalbrief

Legal journals:
 * De Rebus

Ngo's:
 * South African NGO Pulse
 * Foundation for Human Rights

It should be noted that locally the event is referred to as the National Schools Moot Court Competition (the "South African" part being omitted) and several sources are omitted when searching for "South African National Schools Moot Court Competition". Furthermore the event is officially supported by the South African government and several statutory bodies. Purple Duke (talk) 16:16, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Even without "South Africa" there are less then 10.000 internet hits. But without facebook, linkedin, wikipedia (and clones), youtube, yelp, myspace, twitter, and vimeo is looses 75% of its hits. Sorry, but the competition has to grow a bit more. Night of the Big Wind  talk  17:06, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe the presumption in favour of notability as per Notability applies to the topic and that said presumption is not derogated from merely because of a lack of hits. Sources "are not required to be available online, and they are not required to be in English" . Wide coverage on the internet does therefore not seem to be a requirement. The sources supra and several not annotated reflect a neutral point of view, are credible and provide sufficient detail for a comprehensive article.


 * This state endorsed moot court competition, judged by Constitutional Court Judges (the highest court in South Africa for constitutional matters in a country where the constitution is the supreme law), is indeed in its infancy but the lesser degree of proliferation of online publications in South Africa should be noted and if the number of hits are indicative of a "non-notable event" (which from my understanding Wikipedia:Notability is not a requirement) then the online presence should be compared to a similar type of event originating from a country with a similar socio-economic environment and internet penetration and not against an arbitrary number of hits. In said circumstances the approximate 2500 hits then seem adequate for now. Purple Duke (talk) 19:09, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Based on Notability (events), I would asked for more evidence of notability in the article. And please be aware that sources like Twitter and Facebook are not accepted as reliable sources. Night of the Big Wind  talk  19:29, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * From my understanding the topic is not an "event" (Event) as per Notability (events), and the general Notability applies. I refer to my argument supra. No sources like Twitter and Facebook have been consulted or referenced, see the extract of reliable sources supra. The 2500 refers to the 25% of 10.000 internet hits not facebook, linkedin, wikipedia (and clones), youtube, yelp, myspace, twitter, and vimeo as calculated by you supra. Purple Duke (talk) 19:44, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The premise of the request for deletion is: (my emphasis)


 * "Non-notable event. No wide coverage on the internet (for what that is worth relating to South [sic] Afrika)."


 * Notability states: (my emphasis)


 * '"Sources",[2] for notability purposes, should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability. The number and nature of reliable sources needed varies depending on the depth of coverage and quality of the sources. Multiple sources are generally expected. Sources are not required to be available online, and they are not required to be in English. Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability.'


 * Please provide the context and meaning of the Wikipedia policy.Purple Duke (talk) 20:09, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:17, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete I've run my own search. Agree that lack of significant coverage in independent sources means it's not notable. asnac (talk) 09:39, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I would be all for keeping this article - there are, after all, similar competitions held in other countries including the UK. A similar example is the National High School Mock Trial Championship in the US, which has an article. However, I'm always dubious when I see something described as "annual" event "established in 2011". However, I would add this comment:. Don't judge this by the number of Google hits - size isn't everything, it's the quality that counts. Emeraude (talk) 10:23, 24 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Link to the invitation of the 2nd National Schools Moot Court Competition - March and April 2012 on the South African Department of Basic Education website and information regarding the second event from the University of Pretoria. Purple Duke (talk) 15:54, 26 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.