Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southern Association of Independent Schools


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎ __EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. The article improved markedly over the course of this AfD. I think it is reasonable to give the greatest weight to those that opined after the article's development; doing so gives a clear consensus to keep. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  03:29, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Southern Association of Independent Schools

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Expired PROD deleted then refunded. Original argument was "Wholly unsourced, no standalone notability apparent" by. UtherSRG (talk) 18:20, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Education, Latin America, Caribbean,  and United States of America. UtherSRG (talk) 18:20, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete, this does seem maybe a bit too self-promotional in tone, which alone is not a sole reason to delete, but I am struggling to see how this is a sufficiently notable organisation to warrant and article, which leads me to concur with the PROD rationale. Bungle (talk • contribs) 18:42, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The most recent changes suggest that the article may be sustainable. I still can't say I am overly convinced by how significant the subject is covered, but concede that a fair effort has been made to assert a degree of notability. Bungle (talk • contribs) 17:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Does not pass WP:NSCHOOL. As an additional observation, comparing the diff at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Southern_Association_of_Independent_Schools&diff=295251916&oldid=258449791&diffmode=source to the current version of the article shows that a large proportion of the current content originates with the user Saissais who has only ever edited this one article and whose name might suggest a COI. Hmee2 (talk) 21:16, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmee2, Why do you cite NSCHOOL? This article is not about a school.. As far as there having once been an editor who may have had a COI, is there a policy reason that should require deleting the article? The article has changed almost completely since then. Would you consider taking a look at the current article? Thanks for your work! — Jacona (talk) 12:31, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: to allow for a more thorough discussion of the sources provided, to determine whether the subject is notable Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Salvio giuliano 20:40, 6 April 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:29, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. The article is not in good shape, but deletion is not cleanup. This organization was been in existence for 120 years (originally founded under a different name) and currently has 138 member schools representing over 200,000 students, mostly in the United States. There are over 100 schools with Wikipedia articles that reference this organization. There are now a few sources in the article, and many more are available online. The subject matter meets WP:GNG. Jacona (talk) 00:08, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jacona: I have observed the references you have added, and assessed the content of these on newspapers.com (where they are available) and like during my initial search, I am not seeing the necessary WP:SIGCOV of this organisation. The news articles cited just have passing mentions and a brief overview of what the organisation is. The NY times article is more significant, but then relates to a different subject matter, with the only link being that a lawyer in that case represented the association. Some potential noteworthy coverage may be inherited from a noteworthy event of an association school. I could be persuaded to suggest a redirect to Southern Association of Colleges and Schools as an alternative. Bungle (talk • contribs) 16:16, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - per 's HEYMAN. Further, clearly WP:NSCHOOL does not apply here, anymore than it would to General Motors because they make school busses. And it baffles me how one can contribute regularly to AfD and not know that AfD applies to the subject of, not the current state of the article. This article is important in documenting the history of the transition to racial equity in education in the South. 69.92.163.38 (talk) 15:19, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 10:09, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. Although the current state of sourcing in this article is thin, the subject is clearly notable. There are several hundred sources listed on EBSCO and Proquest. Kudos to for the WP:HEY effort. — Grand&#39;mere Eugene (talk) 10:21, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment, for anyone unable to check, I have clipped the historic newspaper articles added by Jacona, as I don't personally feel they satisfy what is needed for WP:SIGCOV or sufficient to justify WP:HEY, though it seems fair for these to be accessible for assessment:
 * Nashville Banner, December 1952
 * The Courier-Journal, November 1954 - essentially discusses the accredited school and its director, rather than the SAIS organisation, other than to confirm it was the first extraterritorial school
 * Knoxville News-Sentinel, December 1959 - this citation actually says a state senator urged race mixing, and the organisation was merely present at a meeting
 * Gazette and Daily, October 1960
 * There is coverage for sure, but none of it seems significant and often relates to associated individuals or meetings where association members association where present. I am still inclined to suggest a redirect as an alternate, though I am mindful that an organisation over a century old may well have good sources out there, they just need to be found. Bungle (talk • contribs) 20:36, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: Using [Wikipedia Library] is helpful. This subject returned 104 hits on EBSCO, and ProQuest returned 151 full-text newspaper results among 246 results. Here are just a few:
 * Critical Syncing describes a new database for the Head of School search process, sponsored by SAIS, available here.
 * Roddy, T. P. (2010). Frame analysis of the self-perceived leadership orientations of headmasters of the independent schools association of the southwest, southern association of independent schools, and the association of independent schools of Greater Washington member schools is a dissertation.
 * Team recommends dual accreditation for Hutchison describes a "New dual accreditation process" between SACS and SAIS.
 * Edison Prep's accreditor a factor in students' future choices describes the difference between non-accredited and accredited schools: "There are many other good accrediting organizations," Oliver said. Some are state-based accrediting agencies, others are for religious schools or private schools, she said, citing the Southern Association of Independent Schools as an example.
 * In short, the sources are there, and the subject is notable. See WP:ARTN. — Grand&#39;mere Eugene (talk) 00:09, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment. This article was nominated for PROD, which expired and it was deleted. I became aware of this when I observed that the hundreds of links to the article were being deleted, and requested a WP:REFUND of the article in order to improve it. Unfortunately, 3 minutes after it was undeleted, it was nominated for deletion, without anyone having any opportunity to improve the article. Since then, several editors, most notably — Grand&#39;mere Eugene considerably improved the article. There were two editors who jumped on board with !Delete votes almost immediately, in the first hours the article had been refunded and before there was any opportunity to improve the article. Since then, the article has been expanded and revised, going from zero references to a current 22. Excepting the very first evening it was nominated, all the votes have been keep. I encourage editors to look at the article in its current state. Note that it is referenced in a couple of hundred Wikipedia articles. Please just take a look at the article as it exists now, it is not at all the article that was nominated for deletion. Jacona (talk) 00:08, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. As it stands today, April 16, 2023, five sources used in this article meet WP:ORG guidelines, providing significant, independent, reliable coverage in secondary sources:
 * 1) Critical Race Theory Invades Private Schools Across the Nation
 * 2) Moderate Mixing Urged by Virginia
 * 3) Private Schools Mushrooming In The South
 * 4) Private School Segregation Is Defended in High Court
 * 5) Team recommends dual accreditation for Hutchison
 * Remaining sources are used for purposes of verification, including 6 refs to sais.org. — Grand&#39;mere Eugene (talk) 23:29, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I think there is some degree of notability established now which may be sufficient to not delete. I don't feel convinced enough to do a 180 degree turn, but i'll withdraw my !vote. Bungle (talk • contribs) 17:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep: per sources added to article.  // Timothy :: talk  06:48, 18 April 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.