Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sowon (singer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to GFriend. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  15:12, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Sowon (singer)

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSIC; sources like youtube and fan blogs are not reliable Snowflake91  (talk) 22:03, 21 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete Agreed, not notable outside the band, though it would be good if this material could be incorporated into the GFriend page. Matt's talk 23:22, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Change to Merge on further reflection and in light for further arguments. Matt's talk 07:58, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Korea-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:17, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:17, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 22:18, 21 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. Sowon has no individual notability. Random86 (talk) 00:06, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete: As has previously been said; Sowon is not notable enough as of yet. Abdotorg (talk) 16:24, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep: The fact that there are pages for her in Korean, Spanish, Portuguese, Vietnamese, and Chinese have to count for something. This page should not be deleted but augmented by sources from the other wiki languages. Her career began DSP Media, and then she was with Rainbow (South Korean band) and A-Jax (band) before GFriend. She appeared in the Korean series Running Man (TV series) as well. None of this can be summed up in the article for GFriend.Patapsco913 (talk) 17:56, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * In response to Patapsco913: Being notable for appearing in an MV is extremely questionable and highly unlikely, and variety shows have no place in this argument (see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Korea/Popular_culture). Sowon has not released any solo music, been a cast member on any shows out with the group, or acted in any dramas/films to be notable enough for an individual article just yet. Abdotorg (talk) 18:26, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * So how much weight do we place on the fact that there are six other wiki projects that deem her notable. I think the best route would be to get a Korean language person to put an article for deletion on the Korean page and then see how that plays out.Patapsco913 (talk) 18:41, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Other Wikipedias have different notabilty criterias; on Korean wiki, EVERY Kpop idol group member has its own page, even the members like Sowon, where you can write literally just one sentence about her, and has no solo career of any kind. Snowflake91  (talk) 20:11, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I've said so on the WP:N talk page and will reiterate it here: what weight do we place on there being an article on six other Wikipedias? Zero. As Snowflake91 says, other Wikipedias have different notability criteria, even if Wikipedia was itself a reliable source, which it is not ... and presuming those other articles have likewise come under notability scrutiny, which an examination of the respective talk pages shows they have not. I think the best route would be that if you want to save the article, provide reliable sources discussing the subject in the significant detail the GNG requires.   Ravenswing   11:34, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment for the benefit of the closer: This has since been raised WP:N and there seems to be a near unanimous agreement that existence on other language wiki's does not carry any weight in itsself. This make the above an invalid keep argument.Tvx1 14:17, 29 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. Inadequate sources. WP:BLP1E, the 1E being membership of the band. If there is still interest in the subject in ten years time then BLP can be resurrected. Presence on other Wikipedias is irrelevant. Xxanthippe (talk) 22:52, 24 July 2017 (UTC).
 * Keep. Current sources, while not fantastic are good enough.  Of the current references, this(1) and this(2) are secondary source coverage in reliable independent sources.  Another notability-attesting source is this(3).  Kim So-jeong, aka Sowon, lead singer of GFriend.  If decided "not notable", the outcome fo this should be merge amd redirect to GFriend, definitely not "delete".  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:42, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Sources are not in-depth as required for notability. Xxanthippe (talk) 05:19, 25 July 2017 (UTC).
 * I think they are typical of acceptable young pop group singer bios. It's a judgement call, if sufficient depth is disagreed with, merge and redirect to GFriend.  Do not "delete".  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:46, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Soompi is not "reliable independent source", it is probably the worst possible source for Korean entertainment news per WP:KO/RS, it is a sensationalism blog-like website, written by people without any competences, mostly fans. Snowflake91  (talk) 09:14, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Soompi I numbered (2), I'll look harder at it later. What about my (1) and (3)? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 09:26, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * With the help of google translate (not super helpful and a bit funny, "When I meet my buttocks, my sleep comes up." would be a good title for almost anything) they both appear to include of a description of wish/wishes that she wrote herself. Not ideal for WP:GNG. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:54, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "Sowon" literally means "wish" in Korean, so its probably that. Anyway, I already merged and expanded "Members" section at Gfirend page, so it can get deleted/redirected. Snowflake91  (talk) 11:34, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, SmokeyJoe, let's turn that around some. We're not required to demonstrate that those aren't reliable sources. You're required to demonstrate why they are. You stated, emphatically, that those represented "secondary source coverage in reliable independent sources."  That presumes that you did the work necessary to verify they are. Would you present your evidence, please?   Ravenswing   14:19, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It only takes a reading of the text to tell that they are secondary sources, you look for qualitative commentary on pre-known facts. Reliable, I look again at the text, is there any reason to doubt the facts, are there extraordinary claims, and I also look at other articles from the same website.  The hardest test is "independence".  The group is a commercial entity, they have management, advertising budgets, etc, and we live in a world of subtle advertising.  What I looked for is whether the article, and then the website, also contains, directly or indirectly, links to purchases.  If they do, I would call it unashamed promotion (write a story, thin finished with a link to buy tickets).  I didn't find these things.  I think I spent ten minutes doing these things.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:21, 26 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Merge Per Matt/M.R.Forrester. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:01, 25 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Merge and redirect: I'm likewise not sold that those constitute reliable sources (and would be interested in hearing Smokey Joe's reasoning for believing they are). That being said, this is a perfectly valid candidate for a redirect.   Ravenswing   11:26, 25 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete: The guidelines say smth like: "Note that members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability for activity independent of the band, such as solo releases." I do not see how she has done anything to justify an own article. Also her pages in Korean, Spanish etc. are absolutely ridiculous, some of them have just the infobox with no content.--Thebestwinter (talk) 01:43, 28 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.