Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Space Cowboy (Australian Circus and Freak show performer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 00:06, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Space Cowboy (Australian Circus and Freak show performer)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

A non-notable circus performer. A search for results is going to get confounded with at least one Hollywood film, but I think this falls short of WP:N. Also, though I'm not willing to outright declare a hoax at the moment, this at least feels like a Tall Tale. Tyrenon (talk) 19:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Please do not delete this; this person is already referred to in the Disambiguation page for "Space Cowboy" but unlike the other entries there he does not have a page. He is Notable in that he holds several world records, competed in Australia's Got Talent, and has a notable collection of freakshow material.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by UnicyclingJugglingGOD (talk • contribs) 19:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * *Keep - Wikipedia guidance on Notability includes the following criteria for Notability for Entertainers:


 * "Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following.....has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment."
 * Without a doubt the Space Cowboy can be said to have a significant "cult" following (as evidenced by 2,970 friends on his Myspace site) in a specialised and often dark area of the entertainment world.  He has also made many "prolific and innovative contributions" in his field:


 * 1. He has assembled a collection of historical and unusual 'freakshow' material that is Notable in its own right.


 * 2. He has won the Street Performance World Championship three years in a row, the most of any one person or group.


 * 3. He has broken three world records.


 * 4. He has many "world firsts" such as first double sword swallow, first sword swallow underwater, and the "The Black and Decker Digestion Wrecker" a power drill with sword attachment which he swallows.


 * 5. He has performed in 30 countries around the world.


 * This is even without his performance on "Australia's Got Talent", for which appearance on such reality shows seems enough to gain Notability and a Wikipedia page for other people (e.g. Susan Boyle, and the even less significant "performer" known as DJ Talent).


 * Peteinterpol (talk) 09:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you provide references for these? There were three refs on the article when I looked, all largely the same - 2 were pictures of him sword swallowing, the 3rd went into more detail (The PDF stated "Australian sword swallower 'The Space Cowboy' attempted to break the current Guinness World record in Dublin yesterday by swallowing 27 swords decorated with the flags of each of the countries in the EU to mark the vote on the Lisbon Treaty"). The latter strikes me as most useful: if he broke the record that seems (to me) to imply notability. If you could provide refs for the other 2/3 world records he's broken, and maybe some of the "firsts" he's achieved, then I'd be happy to !vote keep on the basis of notability. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 16:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Defence of this page

I would argue for retaining this page. I have been considering starting a page on this person myself, particularly since his fame in his native Australia after appearing on Australia's Got Talent. Even Susan Boyle has her own page after appearing on the UK version of the show but with fewer other claims to Notability.

This is also not a Tall Tale or hoax. A search of Youtube will reveal the veracity of the subject.

Peteinterpol (talk) 19:14, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment There are claims of notability. More than Susan Boyle probably. (Not having TV, I couldn't say how good she is/was but on the whole don't regard performers on these programmes as being anything more than moths passing a window - until they actually do something more.) I'm intrigued by the idea of him travelling in a tent.... Peridon (talk) 21:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Susan Boyle's notability isn't derived from performing on Britain's Got Talent, it's derived from the international media exposure she subsequently got. Performers on Britain's Got Talent wouldn't normally satisfy notability requirements for their own article.  No comment on Space Cowboy's notability, except to say that I'd normally expect it to extend beyond Australia's Got Talent to justify an article. I've not yet looked at Space Cowboy in any detail though, so not !voting at this stage. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 16:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC) Striking part of comment, because I've started to look at Space Cowboy and it looks like notability could be established. Need more refs, however. This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 16:42, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 12:07, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions.  —Grahame (talk) 14:18, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's useful This flag was once red. Interestingly though, the following former Britain’s Got Talent contestants all have Wikipedia pages despite not having had amything like the media coverage that Susan Boyle has had:


 * Connie Talbot, Damon Scott, Jake Pratt, The Bar Wizards, Escala, Charlie Green, Andrew Johnston, Kate and Gin, Faryl Smith, Greg Pritchard, Julian Smith, Hollie Steel, Shaun Smith, Shaheen Jafargholi, DJ Talent, Neil Horan, Manjit Singh, Mr. Methane.


 * These are hardly household names. It seems their apprearance on Britain's Got Talent is the sole criterion for Notability used in many if not all of these cases.  If appearing on Britain’s Got Talent” is not sufficient grounds for Notability, these people’s pages should also be deleted.


 * Peteinterpol (talk) 17:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair point - some of those are fair enough - Connie Talbot, for example, was a finalist, if I remember correctly. Others... not so much. My point was more that Susan Boyle satisfied notability requirements, not that some other contestants didn't deserve to be WP:AFD'd into touch ;-)
 * Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 17:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Good point, noted.


 * Cheers


 * Peteinterpol (talk) 17:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I would argue for the retention of this page because he has broken possibly 5 world records, is one of the last remaining sword swallowers on the planet and the media has spent over 325,000 australian dollars on him. He is founder of one of the last, perhaps even the only legal travelling freakshows on the planet. He is extremely famous at festivals, for instace the Edinburgh fringe festival, he has performed there 13 years in a row. He has won Street Performer world championship 3 times in a row. He is so famous and intriging that someone got a permanent tattoo of his wings and the words "space cowboy" on their leg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UnicyclingJugglingGOD (talk • contribs) 16:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong keep. Official Guinness world-record holder for sword-swallowing (17!); unofficial world-record holder for sword-swallowing (27!!) set during EU elections - made newspaper front-pages in at least UK and Ireland. Also a contestant on some TV show. Not a Kiwi, but nobody's perfect, eh?! This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 18:07, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and rename per Ukexpat's comment below. This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 20:20, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Citations for World Records

The following refers to a Guiness World Record he broke in 2008:

http://www.swordswallow.com/records.php

Where it states that:

"Chayne Hultgren, the Space Cowboy of Australia holds the official men's * Guinness World Record for swallowing 17 swords at once at Calder Park in Melbourne, Australia on March 28, 2008"

Will see if I can find a copy of the Guinness book itself.

Peteinterpol (talk) 18:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC) (I just fixed this comment Drawn Some (talk) 18:07, 3 June 2009 (UTC))


 * Comment- I've made a change to the layout only to change its format, not its content, since it was messing with the AFD log. I have no vote on this issue. Umbralcorax (talk) 18:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Have added a citation on the page from the Times demonstrating his popularity compared to other street performers.

Also a citation referring to his being the first person to ever swallow a sword in a tank of live sharks.

Peteinterpol (talk) 07:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - the article needs some cleanup but the topic is notable. I base this on the sword swallowing record and many small writeups combined with this more substantial item. -- Whpq (talk) 16:33, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per Whpq. Peridon (talk) 17:14, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I have now added a citation for a second world record, heaviest weight lifted while swallowing a sword - 22.4kg

Peteinterpol (talk) 21:40, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep and rename: Meets GNG guidelines. If kept should be moved to Space Cowboy (performer). And just a reminder that the fact that other stuff exists is irrelevant to the discussion of this article. – ukexpat (talk) 18:26, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - good suggestion on the rename -- Whpq (talk) 20:17, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 20:20, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.