Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spartacus Educational


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (This actually meets criterion 1 for a speedy keep—nomination withdrawn with no outstanding "delete" opinions—but after more than eight days I hesitate to characterize the close as speedy.) Deor (talk) 05:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Spartacus Educational

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Appears to fail WP:GNG. Source 2 ("interview with john simkin") comes closest, but it's one interview among 68 interviews as part of a single research study into history curricula. And it's an interview, not an outside description of the article subject. It's also only one source, even if it were to count. Google news archive and google book fail to turn up any references, although there are several books which reference individual web pages from the site. Sailsbystars (talk) 15:11, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn The additional sources below I think are more than adequate to pass WP:GNG. Never done this before so I don't know if there's other buttons to hit?  Sailsbystars (talk) 20:30, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment: Related Afd from November 2008: Articles for deletion/John Simkin. (William John Simkin was moved to the current John Simkin in 2010.) - Location (talk) 19:04, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment people give to Wikipedia to help this site pursue its information provision related agenda. Wikipedia is in a position to assist other information providers at no cost.  Its a history teacher and colleague doing their best to develop useful contents.  If its borderline then keep. Gregkaye (talk) 19:58, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:58, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:58, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:58, 23 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment I originally created the entry because the Spartacus Educational website is an extensive resource I have known and trusted for some time. I know that some Wikipedia editors have issues with the way that it presents information, and they believe that there may be a political bias, but this does not justify denying its existence. (For the record, the entry was previously recommended for deletion 14th February, and another editor undid this, writing "As reviewing admin, I think this at least somewhat informative, and not entirely promotional, so speedy deletion declined.")Tartarusrussell (talk) 09:13, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep - Prominent online encyclopedic reference. Subject of multiple pieces of independent coverage. See: "Interview with John Simkin, 4 June 2009," History in Education, www.history.ac.uk/, which includes a downloadable MS Word transcript. See also: "Historian fears Daily Mail used his website to traduce Ralph Miliband," The Guardian, Oct. 4, 2013. Carrite (talk) 05:31, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I think it is important that you know something of the history of Spartacus Educational. It has been a book publisher since September 1984. I decided to produce a website in September 1997. This is of course before Wikipedia and Google had websites.

At the time I was teaching at a secondary school (11 to 18) in Sussex, England. It was initially created to provide teaching materials for my students. The UK government had recently introduced some major changes to the way the subject was to be taught. The “History National Curriculum” stipulated that the students needed to study primary and secondary historical sources. This of course had been the way was taught in the universities but it was a new idea to do it in the classroom. These sources were to be used to teach the students how historians use sources to “interpret the past”. This was a major change as history teachers had traditionally used the “narrative” approach. Its critics have argued that this has encouraged “nationalistic” history teaching. To reinforce this new approach, the government told the examination boards to change their history exams to fit in with the new history curriculum.

The pages on my website followed a certain pattern: A traditional narrative and a collection of primary and secondary sources that indicated the different ways that the subject had been interpreted by historians. Initially it was exclusively used by schools in the UK and research by the Fischer Family Trust showed that the Spartacus Educational website was used by more history students in the UK than any other website, including that of the BBC.

However, because of search-engines, the material was being used by students all over the world. It was not long before we had 6 million page impressions a month. By this time most of my visitors were from the USA (research suggested that most of my visitors were university students.)

This approach to history teaching did cause problems in other countries whose students had been brought up with a traditional nationalist narrative. On one occasion there were questions asked in Finland’s parliament as politicians became concerned that the country’s children were using the Spartacus Educational website. The main concern was that the students were using my page on Finland and the Second World War. They objected to the fact that I had included two secondary sources from Russian historians on the Soviet invasion in 1939. Luckily, there were politicians in their parliament who had knowledge of the way that the subject is taught in the UK and they eventually withdrew their demands for me to take the page down.

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfinland.htm

I am afraid this has been a constant problem. Some visitors are sometimes confused by my willingness to include different interpretations of the past. However, it is part of my website that I am unwilling to change, as if I do so, it would be of less use to the students studying the subject in the UK.

I am constantly trying to improve the website. We have recently introduced a menu at the top that enables visitors to get quickly to the information they need. Other sections include sources, references and student activities. You can see how this works here:

http://spartacus-educational.com/GERheydrich.htm

I am always willing to correct mistakes on my website. Every page has details of how I can be contacted by email, Facebook and Twitter:

john@spartacus-educational.com

https://www.facebook.com/SpartacusEducational

https://twitter.com/johnsimkin

Visitors can also check out my academic background and my publishing history.

http://spartacus-educational.com/author.htm

John Simkin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.14.84 (talk) 10:15, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your effort, sir. With this deletion discussion I in no way mean to imply that your website is not of use nor that you somehow lack in qualifications.  Wikipedia has rules on inclusion for articles that say (paraphrasing somewhat) that an article subject has to have substantial coverage in multiple reliable sources (e.g. newspapers, books) that are independent of the subject.  Carrite, above, has presented two sources that mostly qualify (honest wikipedians could disagree, it's a bit marginal in my opinion but a good start) to include the article.  One way you could help, which would both guarantee that this article won't be deleted would help us improve the article would be to find more sources. Do you know of any other interviews you've done about the website?  Is there some website from a school describing what your website is?  Is there some textbook or journal article that describes it? Those would be the sort of thing that would be ideal.  Sailsbystars (talk) 01:00, 27 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. WP:WEBCRIT states: "The content itself has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itself." That guideline also refers to WP:NOT which states: "Wikipedia articles should not exist only to describe the nature, appearance or services a website offers, but should describe the site in an encyclopedic manner, offering detail on a website's achievements, impact or historical significance, which can be significantly more up-to-date than most reference sources since we can incorporate new developments and facts as they are made known." There is insufficient material to be found in reliable sources to describe the website in an "encyclopedic manner". The two aforementioned links ("Interview with John Simkin, 4 June 2009," and "Historian fears Daily Mail used his website to traduce Ralph Miliband,") state only that Spartacus Educational is run by John Simkin and do not give any additional details about the website. (i.e. it is trivial coverage about the website). Location (talk) 07:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. I would like to thank Mr. Simkim for providing the sources noted below. While I would like to see more media coverage in line with Edutopia (which is unique in that it receives coverage due to its ties with George Lucas), I think this sourcing collectively meets the criteria of "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" noted in WP:GNG. The chapter in Haydn's Using New Technologies to Enhance Teaching and Learning in History was authored by Mr. Simkin, but it does give background on the formation of the website and could be used per WP:ABOUTSELF. Location (talk) 15:36, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

The standard textbook used by British history teachers who want to use technology in the classroom, Using New Technologies to Enhance Teaching and Learning in History (2013) that is edited by Terry Haydn (Professor of Education at the University of East Anglia), includes an article about Spartacus Educational (pages 115-130). Ali Messer, tutor for History PGCE and MA Education students at the University of Roehampton, writes in her article, “History Wikis”, that Spartacus Educational is a “remarkable website for school students” (page 49).

We are included in Kevin Driscoll’s 1000 Really Useful Websites (2001): “Spartacus is a small educational book publishing company that is committed to providing free resources for the internet community… the site does contain some good reference pages and lots of good educational links… great for reference.” Page 274

We were also featured in Hutchinson’s 2001 Guide to GCSE Websites. (GCSE is the main exam taken in the UK.) It includes several references to our website: “Detailed and informative exploration of slavery in Britain and the USA. The site includes information on the life and conditions of slaves, as well as the anti-slavery groups that were formed and the reforming legislation that was passed.” (page 95); “Development of the railway system during the 19th century. This comprehensive site focuses on the individual entrepreneurs and their inventions, as well as the railway companies, stations, and the effect the railways had on towns and cities.” (page 96); “Explanation of the developments that occurred in the textile industry during the Industrial Revolution. This excellent site examines the inventions of the late 18th century and the effect that they had on workers and the textile industry.” (page 96) There are several other references in the book to our website.

In the early days we had several articles written about us. The first review was in the Independent on Sunday on 1st February 1998, by Marek Kohn, on the First World War section of Spartacus Educational. After writing about one entry on Mick Mannock he goes onto say “Mannock’s extraordinary tragedy features in the International Internet Encyclopedia of the First World War, a collaborative work in progress hosted by Spartacus, a small educational publisher…. The whole hypertext will form part of a larger encylopedia.” A review in The Guardian on 30th May, 2000, gave us a five out of five star-rating: “It has extensive cross-referenced seconds on the US, the Medieval World, the First World War, Slavery, Vietnam, Women’s Emancipation, development of railways and parliamentary reform. Resources vary from archive footage, sketches and photos to first-person accounts.”

There were also reviews by Simon Crerar in the Sunday Times and Derek Bishon of the Daily Telegraph but at the moment I cannot find them. (I seem to have mislaid them during my house move). There were also reviews in the Times Educational Supplement, Teaching History, Educational Computing, etc. but I am afraid I cannot find copies at the moment.

There are a large number of online reviews. Here is a selection of them:

The George Lucas Educational Foundation

http://www.edutopia.org/blog/online-resources-primary-source-documents-monica-burns

“Spartacus Educational is a great resource for global history. It contains free encyclopedia entries that directly connect to primary source documents, making it a perfect tool for educators looking to give students a starting point in their research. It can even be used for a historical figure scavenger hunt!”

The History Guide

http://www.historyguide.org/resources.html

British History, 1700-1920: “The Spartacus Internet Encyclopedia of British history is a wonderful collection of more than 1000 entries covering the history of Britain as seen through the eyes of people from all levels of society. An excellent resource…. A mind-boggling online encyclopedia of British history, medieval Europe, the Nazis, US Civil War, the Vietnam War and more. Phenomenal!”

Oxford University - Open Educational Resources

http://open.conted.ox.ac.uk/resources/link/spartacus-educational

“Vast collection of short articles on many aspects of British history, with good links between subject areas.”

Davidson Institute for Talent Development

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Resources_id_13825.aspx

“This site is perfect for the student seeking enrichment in history. Fun and easy to explore various topics for a general understanding of events and characters in Western History (primarily US and British). Nice place to begin a search, however each topic is discussed briefly - this site does not provide in-depth discussion for those who have already developed a general knowledge of Western History.”

EdTech Teacher

http://www.besthistorysites.net/index.php/early-modern-europe/modern-britain

“This Spartacus Educational resource concentrates mostly on British history from the medieval era. Contains overviews, essays, images and subtopics such as: British History 1700-1900, Slavery 1750-1870, RR 1780-1900, and Emancipation of Women 1750-1920. Offers a Tudor Encyclopedia, Biographies: 1485-1600, an Encyclopedia of British History, 1700-1900, an Encyclopedia of the English Civil War, an Encyclopedia of Politics in Britain: 1750-1950, Chartism Encyclopedia, Journalists and Newspapers 1700-1945, Parliamentary Reform 1700-1832, Peterloo Massacre, history timelines, online lessons, web site reviews, two free online newsletters, and more.”

http://kaj.upol.cz/materialy/computers/historysites.htm

“One of the best sites for history. A rich resource for both teachers and students of British History. Schoolnet offers a wonderful depth of information on British history, and a very complete web directory of related sites.”

St Mary's College, Hull

http://historymad.stmaryscollegehull.co.uk/TempPages/misclinks/learninglinkspagetemp.htm

“Produced by the historian John Simkin, this site offers a compendium of articles on Modern World and Modern British history. Its particular strengths are American history, the two World Wars and British political history 1700-1900.”

The Royal Geographical Society

http://www.rgs.org/OurWork/Schools/Teaching+resources/Key+Stage+3+resources/Encounters+-+Images+of+empire.htm

“Spartacus education: information on a range of historical themes.”

New Zealand Library Learning Resources

http://schools.natlib.govt.nz/resources-learning/first-world-war-resource-guide-schools

First World War resource guide for schoolsSpartacus Educational - In addition to their print resource, The Spartacus encyclopedia, the Spartacus Educational website contains an extensive range of First World War topics including: Outbreak of war, Important battles, Life in the trenches, Women at war, War poets, and also First World War statistics.”

Tyne & Wear Museum : Remembering Slavery Learning Zone

http://www.twmuseums.org.uk/slavery/learning-zone/links/

Primarily related to school activities, it also contains references to accounts by enslaved Africans, slave systems, events, anti-slavery groups and legislation.

In the Staff Room

http://www.inthestaffroom.com/mainabab.html?id=155_368_6962

“Spartacus Educational: Spartacus is committed to providing free resources for the Internet community. Spartacus is an approved supplier of educational materials for the US Education Department's GEM Project and Britain's National Grid for Learning.”

Waldomaths

http://www.waldomaths.com/linksTeachers.jsp

“Spartacus Educational - a large and outstanding UK website put together by John Simkin, historian and teacher. You can explore the whole site which is mainly about history but also has resources in many other subjects including maths. There are also many links to other educational websites, each with an informative outline.”

New York Public Library - Best on the Web

http://www.nypl.org/weblinks/1896

(Germany) Germany: 1900-1945

Online encyclopeda includes narrative, illustration, and primary sources, Part of the Spartacus Educational website.

Schools History

http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk//year9links/industrial9.shtml

“The comprehensive internet encyclopaedia by Spartacus Education. This links to the specific 'industrial revolution' section, so pupils need to select relevant links, such as the Textile Industry, the Railways or Engineers.”

John Simkin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.14.84 (talk) 14:16, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.