Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sports Marketing Group


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Lankiveil (speak to me) 00:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Sports Marketing Group

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

The short version: spam. The slightly longer version: serious conflict of interest issues have left us with an article that, while containing a number of sources, is but a hollow shell that crumbles upon close examination. Sports Marketing Group's biggest claims to fame appear to be a couple surveys & a prediction (details in article). Regarding the surveys, several sources did write about the results, but in the way that the results of polls are typically written: focusing on the results themselves, not so much the collectors of the results. The mentions of SMG could probably be considered trivial mentions, and the articles themselves perhaps WP:NOTNEWS. If anything, I could perhaps see a stretch of an argument for merging this with the founder, Nye Lavalle. However, Mr. Lavalle's article has some strong COI & NPOV problems too.

See the talk pages of both mentioned articles above, plus WP:COIN for info on the COI probs.

Probably borderline speedy-able with db-spam... --AbsolutDan (talk) 23:29, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I won't get into the problems with Nye Lavalle here. I proposed merging the two articles a while back and I would support that. The main reason for a merge/delete is that SMG appears to be simply a vehicle to promote Lavalle. He has other interests besides sports described on his page, but I don't see how to separate SMG from Lavalle. Simishag (talk) 00:06, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * My two cents


 * The page is very relevant for anyone in the sports business, marketing and media industries. Especially students like myself who are studying sports management.  There seems to be a conflict with Sim and Pope and it seems to be personal in nature over their views.  However, that should not detract from the info we've posted and researched.  The original companies in this business like ProServ, IMG, and SMG should be listed and more info placed on and updated and discovered.


 * These companies were noteworthy and contributed to the growth of an open and professional sports arena and the men, women, and companies involved in helping to grow a $280 billion plus industry should be recognized. Note, other fellow students and I have contributed to other articles as well and added to this industry.


 * The complainers have cleaned up, so their excuses and personal quirks and bias' should not lead to any deletion. I mean, sim keeps adding NASCAR high points and doing his best to attack figure skating and when you read his talk page, the bias is more than obvious.  He also has had complaints from many others and from what some of us have gathered from his comments, he does not have any marketing, research, sports management or journalism background.  He should not be allowed to hurt many students who wiki is really a great first resource (still must do the fact check) for his pet projects and peeves.  Not what wiki is about, I do not think.


 * My two cents 66.229.128.203 (talk) 16:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with AbsolutDan and Simishag that this article is basically spam and is a vehicle to promote Lavalle. The article does assert notability but a google search doesn't find anything about this company. I think the IP user has hit the nail on the head - at most it might be useful for people in "sports business, marketing and media industries" but this an encyclopedia not an industry magazine. Delete Smartse (talk) 16:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Gentlemen, I'd advise examining other pages of companies in this industry that have virtually no cites and are far more biased than anything written on these pages. I will have students add more to these other companies and individuals with proper cites.  You simply can't ignore a multibillion industry in America that keeps you watching and attending NASCAR or WWE wrestling or whatever floats your individual likes.


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN_Sports_Poll
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Luker
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMG_(business)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProServ
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marketing_Arm
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millsport
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doyle_Dane_Bernbach


 * Mark McCormack was a billionaire and counseled everyone from the Pope to Tiger Woods and virtually every CEO in America. Without money, expertise, and research, there would be no NASCAR.  To delete any of these companies or persons would be a tragic mistake.  We are not the wiki police deciding what is relevant and what you may not find relevant is very relevant to others.  Sports management and marketing classes are majors at many colleges and universities as well as MBA programs in the discipline.  If you want to add, edit etc that is fine and what wiki is about, but don't let personal views dictate and cloud your judgments.  http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&as_q=&as_epq=sports+management+program&as_oq=college+university&as_eq=&num=100&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=off


 * Many of the above wiki pages need to be beefed up and cited. We shall do in coming weeks.  However, scan any company or person on wiki and I am sure you can criticize any.  Few pages have as many cites and references as these pages do and the pages we've edited and added to.


 * Sports marketing and management are a major part of American business and education see http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&as_q=&as_epq=sports+marketing&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=100&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=off


 * http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&as_q=&as_epq=sports+management&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=100&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=off


 * Ignoring the companies and individuals that contributed to this massive worldwide industry would be wrong.


 * Additional comments. I have read the wiki policies and comments.


 * Neutral point of view is a fundamental Wikimedia principle and a cornerstone of Wikipedia. All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view, representing fairly, and as far as possible without bias, all significant views that have been published by reliable sources. This is non-negotiable and expected of all articles, and of all article editors.


 * Please note: The above label is meant to indicate that a discussion is ongoing, and hence that the article contents are disputed and volatile. If you add the above code to an article which seems to be biased to you, but there is no prior discussion of the bias, you need to at least leave a note on the article's talk page describing what you consider unacceptable about the article. The note should address the problem with enough specificity to allow constructive discussion towards a resolution, such as identifying specific passages, elements, or phrasings that are problematic


 * I see tons of criticism, but no specific passages, elements or phrasings listed. Sim redid tons on the article.  I'd suggest someone go and ID negative info about the company or Lavlle and see what can be added.  Am I wrong here?  Not trying to argue, but to discuss valid points.  Also, anyone is free to report on any additional info.  The info is all sourced, cited, and uses extensive quotes from reliable sources that are cited.  I have yet to see such a well cited story here.  I know I am in a man's world, but come on guys, some specifics as to what is not reliable, not fact, etc. is appropriate I think rather than any personal views or bias, yours or mine, that are all natural in their selection.  Some of you all may like blondes over brunettes, small over big, individual sports over team ones... you get my point.


 * Let's address specifics, rather than personalities and personas.


 * KPKrissyPope (talk) 00:31, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * You know my views. Keep!  Here are some of two cents comments and links.  far more than 10 most hated.


 * http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&num=100&q=%22nye+lavalle%22&cf=all http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&newwindow=1&num=100&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=off&q=%22nye%20lavalle%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wp http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&as_q=poll&as_epq=sports+marketing+group&as_oq=hated+loved&as_eq=&num=100&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=off http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&num=100&q=poll+hated+OR+loved+%22sports+marketing+group%22&cf=all http://books.google.com/books?um=1&num=100&q=%22sports+marketing+group%22&btnG=Search+Books
 * I think smart didn't add additional search strings to limit. Also, doing searches of major newspapers turned up a lot. The Bob Ryan story from Boston paper was really funny.
 * Check factiva and other news sources.
 * Found a ton of articles if you guys want on their site. They need to redo and update site.
 * http://www.sponsorintell.com/PDFgallery1.htm http://www.sponsorintell.com/PDF%20Files/SMGClips%2785-%2793.pdf http://www.sponsorintell.com/PDF%20Files/SMGClips%2793.pdf http://www.sponsorintell.com/PDF%20Files/SMGClips%2793-%2794.pdf http://www.sponsorintell.com/PDF%20Files/SMGClips%2794-%2796.pdf http://www.sponsorintell.com/PDF%20Files/SMGClips%2796-2007.pdf
 * In reading the articles, it appears to me they were media darlings since while one or two articles made snide comments and remarks, no one challenged their research and the quotes I found on the company were from the CEOs and presidents of major ad agencies at the time like DDBNeedham and DMB&B which had Budweiser, GM and all. You should look at Steve Wilstein's page. He was the AP reporter who busted baseball and McGwire. It seems he had a close working relationship or collaboration with the AP. Few companies get to do joint studies and research with the AP. One area no one has mentioned and should be included in the articles is that they did the largest study of sports gambling as well that won an AP award.


 * KrissyPope (talk) 00:25, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as spam. I'd also put it below the notability threshold. Yes there are lots of stories out there, but most seem to be about the 10 most hated sports research, with little about the company itself. The sources I could find talking about the company appeared to be very speciailist publications which though they may be reputable, do not establish notability. Quantpole (talk) 12:27, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  I 'mperator 12:14, 24 April 2009 (UTC) Cheers.  I 'mperator 12:14, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as per discussions above and on WP:COIN. The above links show that the company is only noted in specialist publications and as User:Quantpole pointed out only then referring to the poll. Smartse (talk) 13:59, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, a non-consumer business serving a very small clientele, with clear neutrality issues remaining in the text. Seems to be referenced mostly to trade publications, press releases, and Google searches that yield results that are not primarily about this business. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 14:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete--despite the copious verbosity of the above editor, the article is simply spam. Drmies (talk) 19:37, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.