Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sports entertainment


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Michig (talk) 18:23, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Sports entertainment

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The term merely seems to be one that is coined by WWE to refer to "professional wrestling". The definition of the term probably deserves to go in the article Glossary of professional wrestling terms, but does not deserve a standalone page. Article largely refers to professional wrestling anyway. Three sources provided, but one is a dead link and the other two have zero mentions of the term "sports entertainment". Starship.paint (talk) 07:24, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions. Starship.paint (talk) 07:24, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Neutral: If the article were to be expanded to include events OTHER than professional wrestling, then it might carry some weight. Faustus37 (talk) 08:12, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Redirect as per GaryColemanFan below. That makes more sense. Faustus37 (talk) 07:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Comment - I've been working on Glossary of professional wrestling terms here and there, as the nomenclature of the business is both prevalent and significant. Much of this nomenclature has developed historically. OTOH, a lot of it has been invented by the WWE to suit the attitudes or beliefs of their audience. Witness "pipe bomb" with regards to CM Punk. "Sports entertainment" vis-a-vis the WWE has it's roots in their desire to get out of athletic commission oversight (and by extension, taxation), reinforced in recent years by their becoming a publicly traded company. However, is this the full extent of the subject matter of sports entertainment? I would think there to be things other than pro wrestling which are presented under the guise of being competitive sport, yet aren't necessarily organized along strict competitive lines. Dwarf tossing, anyone? That's just one example. Perhaps this requires further discussion. RadioKAOS –&#32; Talk to me, Billy  10:27, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete It makes sense that the Harlem Globetrotters and maybe some others could be included with professional wrestling as "sports entertainment." However unless somebody else does it first it's WP:Original research. Kitfoxxe (talk) 23:56, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There's certainly an aversion on Wikipedia to using historical source material which can't be Googled. However, it would be easy to find sources from the 1970s or thereabouts which closely tie pro wrestling and roller derby together.  Whether you can tie that to "sports entertainment" might be a bit harder, dependent upon whether "sports entertainment" is an actual subject or simply a modern-day buzzword/catchphrase. RadioKAOS  –&#32; Talk to me, Billy  00:29, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree that the thing exists. I'm just not sure that the world does too, or calls it "sports entertainment" if it does. Kitfoxxe (talk) 15:22, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

*Redirect to Professional wrestling. "Sports entertainment" isn't a real thing; it's a buzzword created to take advantage of a tax loophole. GaryColemanFan (talk) 15:27, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Strong Keep. (I will be able to add a more substantial argument in a few hours if this is not closed, but for now:) This term is well-established outside of WWE marketing. I fully agree that there are many buzzwords the company uses that would not be acceptable as article subjects here, but "sports entertainment" is not one of them. As already mentioned in the article, this term has a history dating from the 1930s. (It's not an inline reference, but the Toronto Star is a reputable source that is easily accessed, and the reporter, Lou Marsh, has his own WP article so is an unquestionably notable source.)

Examples of mainstream non-WWE use:
 * Harlem Globetrotters: Reuters 2008 press release: ' "for decades the Harlem Globetrotters have defined family-friendly sports entertainment," said [Jeff] Urban, the former SVP of Sports Marketing at Gatorade.' http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/09/idUS252220+09-Aug-2012+BW20120809


 * Roller Derby article from ThePostGame.com : "Forget everything you thought you knew about roller derby. This is not the sports entertainment version that was televised in the '70s and '80s with predetermined winners." http://www.thepostgame.com/features/201104/tough-cookies-rollicking-resurgence-roller-derby


 * article from trueslant.com : "Modern roller derby isn't a retread of the descent into tawdry sports-entertainment spiral the game took in the 1970s." http://trueslant.com/jodydiperna/2010/01/24/freaking-roller-derby/


 * A page on Roller Derby history : "For some leagues it's sports entertainment" http://www.baycitybombers.com/history.html

http://www.askmen.com/sports/business_200/205_sports_business.html
 * article on Monster trucks from AskMen.com:

A basic Google search for any sport listed in the current article with the term "sports entertainment" will bring up a multitude of real-world uses, so I don't understand why there's any confusion at all over whether it's an established "thing". Yahoo even has an entire category in their directory listings with the heading "Sports Entertainment" here: http://dir.yahoo.com/Entertainment/Sports_Entertainment

And if that's not enough, the Hollywood trade magazine Variety apparently holds a "Sports Entertainment Summit" as an entertainment-industry-wide event. http://www.variety.com/events/2012/sports-entertainment-summit

(I apologize if any of this is incorrectly formatted, I don't normally participate in AfD discussions.) -TravelingCat (talk) 22:33, 9 November 2012 (UTC) 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 00:35, 10 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep It seems to be a recognized topic. Article should be improved so its about the overall topic, with less details on individual sports. (or sports entertainments, whatever) -Steve Dufour (talk) 16:01, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - I have struck my "redirect" vote above. TravelingCat puts together a convincing argument. I wasn't sold on all of those being reliable sources, though, so I did a bit of research of my own. Through Google Books searches for "sports entertainment" (in quotation marks) with other terms added ("monster trucks", "roller", "basketball"), I found that there were, in fact, quite a few sources that use this term: (1) "Monster Trucks" by Lynn Peppas: "Monster trucks are recreational, sports entertainment vehicles...", (2) "The Sociology of Sport and Physical Education" by Anurag Saxena: "The film Idiocracy portrays a future where sports entertainment permeates the global culture: the president is an active champion professional wrestler and capital punishment consists of a combination demolition derby, monster truck event..." (3) "Savage Blood" by Alex Chance: "Mr Gruber was a Sports Entertainment promoter from De Soto, Missouri." (4) The August 1996 "American Motorcyclist" magazine describes a race as an "exciting three-hour package of sports entertainment." (5) "Roller Babes: The Story of the Roller Derby Queen" by D. M. Bordner: "...who remember the popular TV sports-entertainment show, roller derby,..." (6) "This I Believe: Life Lessons" by Dan Gediman et al.: "Some dismiss the roller derby as campy sports entertainment that's past its prime." (7) "The National Basketball Association: Business, Organization and Strategy" by Frank P. Jozsa, Jr.: "...being in the business of providing sports entertainment for basketball fans..." There are more, but you get the point by now. I was wrong when I commented earlier, and I think it is important that this article be given a chance. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:34, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - It should also be noted, as I have mentioned on the article's talk page, that much of the article is plagiarized from this non-free source: http://books.google.com/books?id=uKarC6oX3P8C&pg=PT130 . I do not believe that this affects the notability of the article, for the reasons I have mentioned above, but I do acknowledge that much of the article will need to be deleted and/or rewritten if the article is kept. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:48, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - Having read TravelingCat's sources and found a couple more myself that seem to suggest that this isn't limited to just a Professional Wrestling term. It may have originated there, but it has expanded outside the scope of professional wrestling. 108.8.231.56 (talk) 05:15, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - Eep, previous vote added by me, sorry I always forget to log in >.> Insidious611 (talk) 05:16, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.