Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/St. Bartholomew's Episcopal Church (Atlanta)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep, though not by much. Mojo Hand (talk) 02:20, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

St. Bartholomew's Episcopal Church (Atlanta)
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This page describes a relatively small parish in Atlanta with no particular notability. It also reads like the church's own website, with lots of 1st person pronouns. Wsanders (talk) 15:59, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me   What did he do now?  17:21, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  Jinkinson   talk to me   What did he do now?  17:21, 25 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep Added a few references third party sources in books. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 20:02, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm not sure those third party sources are significant enough to make this parish merit its own page. One is by a former pastor who seems to mention the church in passing but is not a significant work, and nonetheless fails WP:N because it is not independent; the other is a very short description in a much longer book about LGBT inclusion in churches, not significant coverage. According to the Episcopal Church's statistics, this church's average attendance is about 250, which does not make it a particularly large congregation. Wsanders (talk) 23:07, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify I fully agree with User Wsanders while there are  sources in Google books including one written about the church and here ,I agree that I have not yet found one which will make it pass WP:N.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:17, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:27, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep per my standards. Specifically, "It ... is notable for its architecture.... It is notable for its church organ, choir, or its music programme. It has been notably large for its denomination, either in the size of the buildings or its congregation numbers...."  (1) The structure has been in several archtectural blogs as being notable, as a "nice setting", and oddly, one for its "bluer" ceiling.  Based on the image File:StBartsATL.jpg, the outside of the building is not only ugly, but bulky.  (2) Its musical program is significantly large.  It has four choirs, totalling 60 members, which would be huge for any church.  The church has been noted regionally for its "performace[s]",[pdf available on Google] and it is the host for other ensembles, such as the New Trinity Baroque orchestra, Atlanta Gay and Lesbian Chorus, and the Atlanta chapter of the American Guild of Organists. (3) This has a huge clerical staff for the 21st century: it has six (6!!!) priests, a deacon, and an archdeacon (a/k/a "Venerable").  By the way, problems with pronouns can be fixed in the normal course of copy-editing. Bearian (talk) 21:54, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it's on its way to being fixed. Let me work on it more. Bearian (talk) 14:13, 9 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment On the number of clergy, the information on this wikipedia entry appears to be out of date, since on the church's own website, it only lists 4 clergy. As the Episcopal Church's own data shows, this church is not unusually large. We also only have the church's own assertions about the size of its music program as a source, and hosting a few community events doesn't make it notable. Your standards set a very low bar for churches, and sets us up for making wikipedia a directory of all churches everywhere. The mentions on the architectural blog do not make for significant, independent coverage, which is the requirement set by WP:ORG notability. At best, this church is of local interest and relevant information might be integrated into the Atlanta Diocese's page. Wsanders (talk) 21:54, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
 * At most Weak keep -- A church with several clergy is likely to be a relatively large one, but I see little about it that is partiularly notable. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.