Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/St Albans Bach Choir


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  10:50, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

St Albans Bach Choir

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Virtually all coverage appears to be from a local newspaper, the St Albans and Harpenden Review, much of which appears to be routine coverage of concerts (there's also one piece in another local newspaper that is also routine). I wasn't able to find any more coverage online. Does not meet WP:GNG, and does not appear to meet any of the guidelines at WP:BAND signed,Rosguill talk 00:03, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka (talk) 02:28, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka (talk) 02:28, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Oppose/Keep Wikipedia guidance states that all content must be verifiable, hence the citations from the St Albans and Harpenden Review described as "routine coverage of concerts" were included as verification of the the items under Repertoire, and other specific facts. Unfortunately, the other local paper, the Herts Advertiser, doesn't appear to make most archived content available online and so isn't easily cited. To address WP:BAND and hopefully satisfy criteria 6, I've added links for the choir's current and several former Musical Directors as "notable musicians". This is in addition to existing references to several eminent guest conductors. Regarding WP:GNG I would contend that appearances on the BBC (citation added), and in notable musician John Rutter's Royal Albert Hall Christmas Concerts (existing citation) satisfy this. Pleriche (talk) 21:34, 8 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment According to WP:INTROTODELETE Advice for Newcomers to Deletion, "deletion is a last resort ... appropriate for articles which cannot be improved". Further evidence of the choir's notability might still be required, but having been in existence for 94 years and benefited from a number of eminent Musical Directors and been conducted by several guest conductors sufficiently eminent to have their own uncontested Wikipedia pages, it is clearly no upstart garage band. Bakazaka has not made a case that the article cannot be improved. Pleriche (talk) 22:28, 8 November 2018 (UTC) (Edited to remove apparent unintentional duplicate vote) Pleriche (talk) 23:03, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose/Keep The choir does the opening concert of the International Organ Festival; there will be references from that body to the choir as well. It did a 9 Lessons and Carols on Sky TV (1989 - the year Sky started, so the first one it broadcast). However, I can find no reference to this; Sky's archives appear not to be public. It was a joint concert with the boys and men of the Abbey Choir, and one organisation has put a recording of the boys onto YouTube, but none (yet) of St ALbans Bach Choir. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GillDotElliott (talk • contribs) 16:48, 10 November 2018 (UTC)  — GillDotElliott (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment By its nature, not many of the criteria in WP:BAND can be easily satisfied by a provincial amateur choir but that doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't deserve a Wikipedia page. There are a number of other amateur choirs with uncontested Wikipedia pages. In the last few days I've made a number of edits to try and improve the case for the choir's notability, in particular, subsections brought together under "Concerts and other appearances" and a citation through JSTOR of a report of a first performance. Pleriche (talk) 16:26, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment I find it very suspicious that the User:GillDotElliott (talk • contribs)'s only contribution on Wikipedia is this AfD and also used the same Oppose/Keep vote as the other !vote user. Reeks of sockpuppeting. Will tag some admins who are around here on AfD and the nominator to see if this should be taken action on.    Jovanmilic97 (talk) 10:17, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - Very little coverage, and virtually no non-local coverage outside of WP:ROUTINE. Fails WP:GNG and WP:ORGDEPTH.  Onel 5969  TT me 13:34, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 19:03, 16 November 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete per Onel5969's comment above, only local coverage has been demonstrated. jcc (tea and biscuits) 16:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Five of the choir's 10 music directors over the last 94 years are independently notable. I think this would meet WP:BAND 6: "Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians". I have changed the external links on those music directors' names to links to their Wikipedia articles. RebeccaGreen (talk) 18:24, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 02:02, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep A string of notable music directors ought to sayisfy the WP:BAND criteria for noteworthy ensemble, even though I'm not sure the criteria is especially suitable for classical music ensembles. Atchom (talk) 19:51, 24 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.