Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/St Patrick's Hall


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to List of halls of residence at the University of Reading.

There was clear consensus that this building has no individual notability, but residence halls in aggregate do, so moving this to List of halls of residence at the University of Reading makes sense. Unfortunately, already went ahead and created that article during the run of this AfD, which complicates things. Instead of a simple move, somebody now has to do a merge. I think that was pushing the limits of WP:BOLD, but here we are.

It was also mentioned that Wantage_Hall should be merged as well. My gut feeling is that's the right thing to do, but that's out of scope for this AfD so no official opinion on that one.

-- RoySmith (talk) 03:09, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

St Patrick's Hall

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

WP:BOLD redirect reverted without a proper explanation by a brand-new account. This is a Halls of Residence, with no notability independent of the University of Reading, and as such, there's nothing worth merging. Luke no 94 (tell Luke off here) 20:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I've retracted my remarks as the other editor keeps changing his comments after I have replied to them showing them to be wrong, making my comments then appear stupid. Des Titres (talk) 22:39, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * No, Des Trites, I've made it very clear as to why I've made my changes. (Also, sorry for being quite abrupt, these constant database server drop-outs, and my own internet issues, are really annoying me when I try to make a post/edit) Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 22:41, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:42, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:42, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:42, 11 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah. My old hall of residence. Still not notable though. Redirect to the university.--Charles (talk) 22:13, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Redirect. Not notable enough for its own article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:48, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep it as it is. It can be developed. Des Titres (talk) 21:02, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
 * That's not the issue. The issue is whether it's notable. Individual halls of residence have generally been held not to be unless they have historic building status. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:48, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Conditional keep - at over 100 years old, this could be historic. Has it been awarded any special listing or status? Bearian (talk) 18:03, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You must live in the USA if you think somewhere 100 years old is historic. Some of the Oxford and Cambridge colleges go back to the 1200s or earlier. I doubt this is the oldest residence at Reading.--Charles (talk) 18:24, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The article itself says it is the second oldest, and as far as I'm aware, it hasn't got any kind of listing. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 18:43, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * @Charles, I am from USA. It must be showing. Bearian (talk) 18:45, 18 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger One ping only 09:04, 19 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. In answer to the query above, no, it is not a listed building. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:03, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep, although it could be expanded to be a list of all 13 of Reading's residences. It is one of two residences listed in navigation template University of Reading, out of apparently 13 residences, so I would guess that this and clearly historic Wantage Hall are probably the most important.  There is ample precedence for there being lists of buildings at universities, split out from the main university article, e.g. recent Articles for deletion/List of residence halls at the University of Notre Dame closed Keep. -- do  ncr  am  15:29, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The only reason it is included in the template is because it has an article; there is nothing particularly special about St. Pat's whatsoever, other than that it's a catered hall, as opposed to self catered (I'm at this University, so I would know if there was!) Wantage Hall does classify as "historic", although I wouldn't say that is particularly notable either (hence why I initially redirected that one), and turning this into a "list of halls of residence" article is pointless; just create that article, rather than having the irrelvant history from this one in there. In short, I'm not sure why you voted keep when most of your !vote is a proposal for a new, separate article, and the other bit shows a lack of fact-checking. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 15:38, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * So you, User:Lukeno94, proposed it for deletion without disclosing that you were also a student at the same university. Are you in a rival hall? Des Titres (talk) 20:59, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * "Rival hall"? That's one of the most ludicrous comments ever. I have disclosed that I am a student at the University on multiple occasions, and I'm not so lame as to buy into the whole "one hall is better than another" type thing. And you can go away if you want to demand that I disclose my exact hall, because that is private information that you would have no business knowing. I'm beginning to wonder if you're a trolling-only account. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 21:32, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Well you would say all that. You still proposed it for deletion without disclosing that you were a student at the same university, in a different hall. Des Titres (talk) 22:25, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Bullshit. I've disclosed on multiple occasions that I'm a student at the University, and you don't have a clue whether I'm in St. Pats or not. You really are a trolling-only account, aren't you? I seem to attract those... Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 11:40, 28 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't see why you chose to criticize my comment, when most of what you say is off-base. ;) I said I would "guess" the two are most important, without assertion of fact-checking, and you confirm that Wantage is the most historic.  And, it would be better to move and rename this article to be a list, keeping edit history and expanding, than to delete and restart a separate article.  The edit history is not irrelevant, it is part of our duty to credit/honor contributions, and there would naturally be a section on St. Patrick's Hall.  That seems pretty obviously acceptable, so deletion is not necessary.  However, this article could simply be kept as is, leaving creation of a list-article to later. -- do  ncr  am  16:05, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * It is our duty to credit contributions, yes, but only when they're relevant; if this article's focus was completely changed, then yes, it would be irrelevant and unnecessary to clutter up the edit history with this article's history. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 16:55, 19 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I have hesitated to comment here because I have a minor conflict of interest as I was a member of St Pats Senior Common Room for one term in 1963. First on the section immediately above, we do not worry about cluttering up the edit history, and we certainly should redirect if the list of Halls has any content whatsoever about each Hall and particularly St Patrick's. Second, and much more importantly, I am inclined to think that notability could be demonstrated although living in Australia I am not in a position to do so. St Patrick's has played a major role in both the university and the city. I suspect there are a host of mentions of the hall in the press, particularly from the first 30 years of the life of the Hall. Internet sources are not the only thing to look for. Has anyone looked in the University Library, or the City Library or consulted with local historians of Reading? So a weak keep for now. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  21:29, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt there's some level of local coverage, but that isn't going to be enough to establish notability. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 08:07, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * How do you know if you do not look? -- Bduke   (Discussion)  21:14, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Because there's no national coverage, which is what I did look for. Local coverage is not enough to generate notability, particularly not as it is almost always going to be in the context of the University anyway. Jeez... Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 21:29, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Where did you look - old newspapers in the library, or what? Des Titres (talk) 22:28, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Google, Google News, that sort of thing. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 23:50, 22 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Redirect to University of Reading. I think a list article on all the residential colleges collectively might be a good thing to have and would be a better redirect target, but we don't have that, so to the university article we must go.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 10:04, 28 February 2014 (UTC). Struck per changes by User:doncram below.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 02:16, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * See below: i edited the article to become the missing/needed list. -- do ncr  am  16:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment -- We appear to have an article on Wantage Hall, another hall of residence. Why delete (or redirect) one not both?  My reaction is that we should probably redirect BOTH to the university.  Peterkingiron (talk) 15:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Wantage Hall appears to be a listed building, which appears to convey some notability. St Pat's does not have the same status. I did initially redirect both, only to be reverted by the brand-new account that has been making wild accusations in this AfD, and someone else had stated that they thought Wantage was notable, hence why I didn't AfD that one. Luke no 94  (tell Luke off here) 16:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. I have boldly edited the article this diff to make it into a "List of residence halls at Reading University".  The edit could be reverted.  I think the sense here, and policy, is that such a list-article can exist, and obviously it can have an item/section on St. Patrick's Hall.  I suggest closing this AFD with decision to "Keep" but to convert and move the article to List of residence halls at Reading University.  There is a category Category:Lists of university and college buildings including other such lists in several countries, and a subcategory of lists of residence halls is warranted by now.  I would simply move it myself, but I think a move is not necessarily easily reverted, and this AFD is still open. -- do  ncr  am  16:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Bravo. I think this is fine, just rename the article once the AFD is done and we should be finished here.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 02:16, 1 March 2014 (UTC).
 * Rename to List of halls of residence at the University of Reading following Doncram's edits. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:25, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Both are valid articles, indeed I've already created List of halls of residence at the University of Reading too. Des Titres (talk) 17:37, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Argh, the new List of halls of residence at the University of Reading is a copy-paste from the St. Patrick's Hall article edited by me to be ready to be moved, and which has been reverted to being just about St. Patrick's. GFDL proper crediting matters.  However this AFD closes, could an administrator fix the edit history:  if decision is to delete/move St. Patrick's Hall, then please move it, with its edit history, to the new List name, and merge the history.  It's not a great work to be super-proud of, but the editors of St. Patrick's and my edits should be in the edit history.  Copy-pastes are usually not a good idea.  I understand Des Titres' point though, s/he believes both articles are separately notable.  If both are kept, i kinda think my edits ought to be included in the new List article's history too. -- do  ncr  am  22:12, 1 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Redirect. The appropriate article has been created as a result of this AfD. It is List of halls of residence at the University of Reading. Szzuk (talk) 11:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.