Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stack Bundles


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Delete. Waltontalk 19:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Stack Bundles

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

NN. seems to be a local rapper at best. --Philip Laurence 22:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * DELETE* With all due respect to the deceased, he does not appear to meet the standards for widespread notoriety that are a key to being posted. plus the article didn't exist befopre he passed. and it is clearly written from a bias standpoint -- like a tribute page.  Great for MySpace or the like, NOT WIKIPEDIA.[[user:jtoddthemighty|


 * Comment. Article didn't exist before June 11 2007. Thus, he was NOT NOTABLE, prima facie. Enough said.R Young {yak ł talk } 04:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep: He is an artist who has worked with major rappers like Jim Jones,Joe Budden,Fabolous,Dj Clue?,and Jae Millz. He even own his own label "riot Gang". since his passing we should keep his memory forever. please keep this page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.183.23.75 (talk • contribs)
 * Keep: he was associated and worked with platinum selling rappers. no need for wikipedia gestapo here. Thismightbezach 22:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment to both of the above. Working with famous rappers is not a proof of notability.  Notability is not inherited.  Ford MF 20:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

*Keep Stack Bundles was on the come up with some of the most notable rappers in the New York hip hop scene. Lyrically, he was stronger than the vast majority of his contemporaries, and with the correct marketing, may have become one of the more successful hip hop acts of 2007. The article is both relevent and important to the hip hop community and should, without a doubt, stay. SquadUpKid 18:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC) (Diff)
 * Comment. Without secondary sources to back this up, this is OR and crystal-balling.  Ford MF 20:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Did he do anything to establish notability? Lots of rappers work with more notable rappers but don't/haven't established themselves. Also, there's the speculation factor--he "may have become one of the more successful hip hop acts of 2007". As it stands, article looks like nothing but an obit. --Ispy1981 22:49, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete not a notable rapper who released an album. Although affillated with rapper Jim Jones, Stack Bundles is not a popular rapper (is more less a local Byrd Gang/Diplomat rapper). Sorry I am with the rest. This article is not notable. LILVOKA 23:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete He's not a famous rapper nor is he a hip-hop artist who made any impact. This guy did NOT have an article yesterday or the day before that. As soon as he dies, a wikipedia article pops up. If he had any REAL fans or was considered "somebody", this article would've been here the minute he started his career. There's no need for this article here. It's just another "gangsta" rapper who's dead now. Nothing too serious here. Delete & Move along. J Anyaoha 23:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete Wikipedia is not a memorial, though he fails WP:MUSIC anyway.  Eliminator JR Talk  23:40, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete As the article states "he hadn't yet attained widespread popularity", nor did he have a recording contract. WWGB 00:09, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

*Keep I fail to see how a recording contract is the litmus test. Mixtapes are and always have been the lifeblood of hip-hop. Plenty of pages on deceased rappers who have made but a splash in both mainstream and underground hip-hop exist. There is precedence to keep this page. Also, see Rule 11 under 'Musicians' for the Rules of Deletion: "Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network" - I'd say Hot97's 6-month love affair with "We Fly High" qualifies. DrobD 20:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC) (Diff)


 * Keep Enough said. 71.180.186.33 00:52, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 00:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 00:14, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete, fails WP:MUSIC. Even mixtapers can become notable, there is no evidence given of such in this case. --Dhartung | Talk 01:09, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

*Comment I don't entirely agree with you Dhartung. Rappers such as Saigon, Tru Life, and Red Cafe (amongst others) have their own wikipedia entries, and all have not, as of yet, released albums. Their pages were written and maintained while they experienced success (equal to that of Stack Bundles) on the mixtape circuit. Perhaps a more close parallel is the persistence of Max B's page. I do not suggest that Max B's page should be deleted, but more reference the fact that sucessive mixtape releases are a reasonable proxy for album releases. DrobD 21:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC) (Diff)
 * Keep and cleanup. His death seems to have attracted a reasonable amount of coverage from the media as shown in the sources. . Capitalistroadster 02:38, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. Dying might confer press coverage, but not explicit notability.  It's already been said, but bears saying again and again: Wikipedia is not a memorial.  Ford MF 20:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete appears to clearly violate WP:BAND; his death does not lend him the noteworthiness he lacked in life. Bigdaddy1981 03:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete. Not notable before death, nothing notable except he was '24'. Even birth date missing. Article admits he had not yet 'made it.'


 * Keep. --Paukrus 04:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment Clearly, a vanity article. Millions of people die every day.R Young {yak ł talk } 04:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep as per DrobD. The article does need more sources and a great deal of improvement though. east . 718 07:56, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, I have changed my vote. east <strong style="color:green;">. <small style="color:gray;font-weight:bold">718 00:03, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * strong delete-from the article "While he hadn't yet attained widespread popularity..." Indeed. Chris 08:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Seconded. Sad that he died, yes, but his notability is lacking at best.  <span style="background-color:White; color:black; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px">  DangerousNerd  <span style="background-color:orange; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">  talk    contribs  <span style="background-color:orange; color:white; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">  email   16:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * strong keep-from the article on Mixtapes &quot;The mixtape format is becoming increasingly popular as a way of generating hype for hip hop artists.&quot; Having tried unsuccessfully to avoid hip hop since about 1979, I can assure you that mixtapes have been a primary outlet for young artists – and some relatively established artists – since the beginning.  Queen Latifah and the Wu Tang Clan's RZA would not be where they are today without them.  I'll be patient if anyone denies a bias against real African-American culture in the coverage of Wikipedia articles, but the reality is this is one area still where there is considerable misinformation and omission.  Stack Bundles was notable in a small circle of influential people who are influencing pop culture.  So was Nick Drake.  This quick &quot;delete him&quot; sounds to me just like, &quot;He's not one of ours.&quot; Jplatt39 12:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment, this is preposterous, but gee, thanks for getting racism involved. The dispute here is a simple one of WP:BAND and no secondary sources.  Almost becoming a notable person doesn't count.  Ford MF 20:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep Although not many people knew Stack Bundles, I enjoyed listening to his tracks and so did many other people, I know that for a fact. Someone doesn't have to be well known to be a good artist. And if people wanna use the fact of him not being well known, I see a whole lot of people on wikipedia pages that I dont know, although I like the type of music they make. Just because I wouldn't know a person, doesn't make it a valid reason to remove a page. If real fans of Jim Jones don't know this man, they obviously hadn't listened to A Dipset X-Mas, where Stack Bundles featured 5 out of 10 tracks, not to mention the tracks he featured on Jim Jones' The 7 Day Theory mixtape. Carlols 88 12:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. "I like it" is generally considered an argument to avoid in AfD debates.  Ford MF 20:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

*Comment Granted there are two sides to this issue, but I believe the purpose of the entry to be more central. Wikipedia is, by definition, a "free content encyclopedia project". It is a source of information free from much of the bureaucracy a regular encyclopedia is subject to. Stack Bundles was a significant player on the New York mixtape circuit, and Wikipedia should be able to provide accurate and verifiable information about him as the masses demand it. To do otherwise violates the purpose of this project. DrobD 11:44, 12 June 2007 (UTC) (Diff)
 * Comment "as the masses demand it" is not a cornerstone of this project. Verifiability is. And really all verifiable press on this guy just says "he rapped with some people who actually are notable" and "he's dead now". Also, the masses clearly weren't "demanding", since the guy didn't even have a stub until someone shot him in the neck. Ford MF 20:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep If you delete this article, he will come back from the dead to haunt you all...just kidding. Seriously, though, if you delete this, you show a great disregard to all the rappers who have been murdered (The Notorious B.I.G., 2Pac, Jam Master Jay, Soulja Slim, Proof (rapper)) among others.  While not every rapper who has been murdered deserves his own Wikipedia article, this one does, because his murder has been mentioned quite often in hip-hop news (even moreso than Proof, I would bet).  Plus, he had collaborated quite frequently with Jim Jones (rapper) and Dipset, whom you do have articles on.  This is why I say Strong Keep. Tom Danson 16:22, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. Again, collaborating with notable people doesn't necessarily make you notable. Notability is not inherited. Ford MF 20:12, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep While I have never heard of him, it is clear he was a notable artist with in his artistic community. Being world wide famous is not the defenition of notability. FancyPants 16:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, for reasons stated above. Zerbey 16:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - I think he's notable enough for a Wikipedia article, but I'm unsure on that. His article isn't harming anyone though. An article on his death is currently on the AP Wire: http://www.mail.com/newsarticle.aspx?catId=1&articleId=1098836. He also was an up-and-coming rapper. My final decision is based on the fact that since we have articles relating to lesser-known minor sports figures, we should keep this too, I figure. Guroadrunner 17:24, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete entirely minor, non-notable rapper failing WP:BAND. There was no article (and virtually no coverage in secondary sources) before he got killed, and Wikipedia is not a memorial.  There's a reason all of the news coverage of his death begins with "Dipset associate Stack Bundles" or "Jim Jones signee Stack Bundles".  Otherwise no one would have a clue who this dude is.  Ford MF 19:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment i doubt anyone commenting on stack has any clue who richard alexander was. you said it - wikipedia is not a memorial. should we delete that too? these entries are less notable than stack's. there is no internal consistency on wikipedia. give it a rest. this entry is important and relevent to many users of both the hip hop and new york communities and should be maintained, cleaned up and verified (just as richard alexander is to you). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.162.228.11 (talk • contribs)
 * Comment sorry but that's a clear case of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and thus not a legitimate argument. Bigdaddy1981 02:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete Stack Who?? GoodDay 20:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * COMMENT about strike-outs. Those two "keep" arguments, ostensibly from two separate registered users, were both posted by the anon IP 207.162.228.12, while another IP, 207.162.229.10 posted a second comment by the ostensible DrobD (Diff).  The diffs are listed next to each strikeout.  Ford MF 20:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * COMMENT. Oy, a third "DrobD" comment was made by the anon IP 207.162.229.11. (Diff). Ford MF 20:59, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong delete Non-notable rapper, and WP:ILIKEIT doesn't count as a guideline. Wildthing61476 20:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, as Homer Simpson once said "If he's so great, why is he dead?". NN rapper when alive.  Even less notable now. Lugnuts 07:11, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * KEEP: Rayquon "STACK BUNDLES" Elliot was a young man with a very bright and promising future. He has gained a significant amount of popularity since he was introduced to the music world. Two hours after his passing he already had over a thousand dedications on myspace, supporting the argument that he had enough notoriety. He has been featured in several music videas as well as main stream songs. Hot 97, at one point, featured him every monday night on the Monday night mix tape. Both VH1 and MTV have featured him on their new updates. Many radio stations across the U.S. have also taken must interest in his passing. He was not a un noted rapper and was signed to a major label. Rayquon was dedicated to positive change and with his success had plans of changing the lives of so many unfortunate people who grew up around him. Please continue to promote that with hard work and dedication even those who come from the "hood" can overcome diversity and be remembered. Please strongly consider his memory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.74.62.226 (talk • contribs)
 * Delete There are barely even listeners on last.fm. I know it isnt a great source, but it should give a general overview of the artist.Buffalodan 00:42, 14 June 2007 (UTC)Buffalodan
 * Delete Agreed with others, a non-notable rapper. He only got an article in the first place because of his death, which doesn't warrant an article. --RandomOrca2 01:23, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete it is always sad when a young person's life is cut short, and people want to remember this person, however Wikipedia is not a memorial, and he does not pass WP:BIO or WP:MUSIC so this is a no brainer to delete. -- su mn ji m  talk with me·changes 12:11, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Might have become notable, could have become notable, but died before he could become notable. If he becomes notable posthumously, like Nick Drake, the article can be recreated. But he's not notable at this moment. Cows fly kites (Aecis) Rule/Contributions 14:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Yes, it's very sad that he died young. Yes, he may have had some following on mySpace or similar. But none of this makes him notable. Wikipedia is not a tribute site. And as for the person suggesting that those who want the article deleted are being racist, there is no basis for that claim. The fact is whether he was white, black, Asian or navy blue with pink spots, he is in no way notable enough to warrant inclusion in Wikipedia.Smurfmeister
 * Keep - if the media is covering his death then he must be notable in some way or another. He seems worthy enough for an article in my opinion.  Fighting for Justice 20:48, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Due respect to the man and consolation to his fans, he is non-notable. A lot of people receive press attention when they die, but that doesn't confirm notability. It's great that he was dedicated to positive change, but this is an issue of encyclopedic content, not a referendum on whether or not he was a good guy or not (see WP:ILIKEIT). Also, despite the fact that he may have become notable had he not been tragically killed, Wikipedia isn't for speculation as to whether or not that would have come to pass (see WP:NOT). (Sorry I forgot to sign this.) Bwowen 21:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete You're gonna need lots of reliable primary, secondary, and tertiary sources to establish notability. Otherwise, as others have said, this is original research and speculation.  MySpace isn't gonna help. ( [ →] zel  zany  - fish) 23:52, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep, conditionally -- All this article needs is one *twit* to go out and find two articles to put into references. I know this can be done. (I, however, am not going to do it because I hate this guy's music like Herbert Lom drawing gauntlets across a chalkboard in a bad Pink Panther sequel.)--Mike18xx 01:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete Non-notable local rapper (at best), mix-tapes do not appear to be notable enough, notability is not inherited. The Filmaker 14:57, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.