Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Star Fleet Universe


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Star Fleet Battles. Feel free to discuss other options - proper page to merge, redirect - on the talk page. Missvain (talk) 00:57, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Star Fleet Universe

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Pure WP:FANCRUFT/WP:OR that fails WP:NFICTION (no evidence of reception/significance; the only referenced parts of the article is a plot summary sourced to the game books themselves). BEFORE fails to find anything outside of a few mentions in passing, mostly from the game books anyway; some hits seem to be referring not to this game-universe but are just a synonyms for the main Star Trek universe. A niche POV fork of Star Trek (which may merit its own article, actually, it's rather embarrassing for wiki-trekkies that we have Wikipedia entry for this but not for the main franchise's universe...). If no sources are found to rescue this, could perhaps redirect to Star_Fleet_Battles. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 10:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  10:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  10:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  10:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Star_Fleet_Battles. Some summary elements from the lede might be worth migrating there. --EEMIV (talk) 11:35, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect or delete. The overall topic does not meet WP:GNG at this time. It is just a collection of plot elements suited to Fandom. TTN (talk) 12:35, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete/Redirect - The subject itself fails the WP:GNG. There is not a single reliable, secondary source being used, and none that I can find upon searching.  There is also nothing worth preserving or merging, as this is nothing but a ton of in-universe plot summaries, the vast majority of which is not sourced at all.  Redirecting to Star Fleet Battles could work, if people agree this is a plausible search term, though. Rorshacma (talk) 15:04, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Star_Fleet_Battles . The Pyramid review is RS, and I would suggest including some critical commentary on the Star Fleet Universe continuity, such as this. Newimpartial (talk) 15:21, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect I have seen some mentions in secondary sources, but I could not see enough to support a separate article. But it is talked about in secondary sources, so it's just that kind of rather obscure information that it would be great if Wikipedia can help an interested reader inform about. The target suggested by Piotrus, Star_Fleet_Battles, is not perfect, as it is limited to the board game, while the Star Fleet Universe spans different games, but I guess one can live with it. A sub-section in Star Trek universe would be better, but as has been said, that does not exist now. Star Trek would be the consequent alternative, but possibly that's too prominent a location. Anyway, this should not be deleted wholesale, as at the very least Star_Fleet_Battles can be improved by merging the one secondary source present in the article, Pyramid.
 * More secondary sources not present in the article: Cinefantastique 28, Computer Gaming World, Science Fiction Video Games, "Retrospective Futures?Law, technology and copyright control in cyberspace". As usual, I am happy to reconsider my opinion if more detailed sources can be found. Daranios (talk) 15:41, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per Jclemens below, or Merge to Star Fleet Battles as per above. BOZ (talk) 17:26, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Relevant RS include which does a pretty good job of explaining what the SFU is, and how it expands beyond just SFB.  is paywalled, but appears from the preview to extensively discuss the interplay between the Star Trek and Starfleet universes in an academic article.  is another paywalled article, and there's nothing relevant I can see on the front page, but I'm suspecting there's a discussion of SFU vs. Star Trek Universe and the associated copyright issues.  So, that's three RS, so I'm a Keep AGFing that Google Scholar isn't lying to me. Having said that, what I would expect for an SFU article is not what this current article is. I'd rather see a parent article for SFB, F&E, Prime Directive, etc. with at most a brief commentary on how it differs from the Star Trek universe, rather than what we have now. Jclemens (talk) 20:01, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , does not explain what the SFU is - you are confusing the topic of the game with its fictional universe. A listing of game editions and its supplements is a totally different topic. The other sources are just vain hopes that WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES. That said, the odds are those articles are available through Library Genesis - did you check it? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  07:37, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * But Science Fiction Video Games does tell us that the Star Fleet Universe is the universe where the listed games are set, that it's different from the Star Trek universe from TNG onwards (in which Starfleet Command III is set in contrast to the other games), that it has "a relatively well-developed (linear) plotline", and that the games describing it have "focused on developing its militaristic elements, creating a future history suitable for use in a wargame". I don't know what's on p. 365, but at least together with the one clarifiying sentence from Pyramid magazine, that gives a definition + a bit of evaluation. The source given by Newimpartial is more extensive, though. Daranios (talk) 15:25, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Just for the record - and much as I would like to have !voted "keep", since the SFU is the setting for games in three different media (board, roleplaying and video-) by multiple publishers - I don't think the source I added above necessarily counts for notability. It is essentially self-published and the status of the author as a "recognized expert" cannot be readily confirmed. However, I do think the source is usable and interesting in the context of a notable article (probably the SFB article since that is where the SFU originated). Of course Pyramid is RS and independent from the SFU in that period, but that's only one independent source. Newimpartial (talk) 15:34, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * And also for the record, ' understanding of that source says matches my own. Granted, it might not be obvious to someone unfamiliar with the topic, but the relationship of SFU to STU is somewhat like that of Super Dimensional Fortress Macross to Robotech: Same original source material, branched due to creative and copyright differences. At any rate, I do have more than a passing familiarity with the topic; even though I've long since dropped it from my CV, I've been published as a named contributor to one of the SFB commercial products. Jclemens (talk) 18:55, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , I do appreciate the sources, but SIGCOV is an issue. We do have enough to warrant a section, but a dedicated stand-alone article still seems unjustified to me. Particularly when it is debatable whether comments like "focused on developing its militaristic elements, creating a future history suitable for use in a wargame" are really about the "universe" or the games themselves. What exactly is a "universe" here? Still way too much fancruft, too little substance. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:27, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, there looks like enough references to keep, but could do with a cleanup. Starspotter (talk) 13:27, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , Which references you see that meet WP:SIGCOV and are independent? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 08:14, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd be sad to see this deleted, but the sources just don't seem to be there. I played a lot of SFB back in my teens... Hobit (talk) 06:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 23:49, 12 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.