Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stephano Sabetti


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. clear consensus of uninvolved wikipedians - andy's 6 points not refuted Scott Mac (Doc) 13:42, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Stephano Sabetti

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Subject is not notable. The only thing I can find about him is in Google Books, a real brief note on (not a review of) one of his books. Nothing in Google News, and nothing of note on the internets either. Drmies (talk) 23:14, 28 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Please Leave the Article A simple Google search on Stèphano Sabetti turned up 23,600 results today (Feb. 3), including books, video lectures and more. Sabetti has in this person's opinion made a significant contribution to the branch of body psychotherapy influenced by Wilhelm Reich's and Alexander Lowen's research. As a spiritual figure, Sabetti has presented perspectives on primarily Eastern philosophy and spirituality that is difficult to find elsewhere. Definitely worth keeping as an introductoy article for others interested in these fields. Elel195 (talk) 21:03, 3 February 2010 (UTC)Elel195.


 * Delete as spam. andy (talk) 13:17, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Please Leave the Article

The suggestion for deletion claims Sabetti isn't notable. I will attempt to address this comments with the following:

1. Sabetti has nine books published, eight of which are available on Amazon.com U.S., Germany, Canada, France and Japan,as well as two books published in Brazil.

Two books have been commercially published in Germany:

Lebensenergie(The Wholeness Principle) Hamburg: Scherz Verlag 1985 and Rororo Verlag 1987 and

Rhythmen des Wandels (Waves of Change) Munchen: Hugendubel Verlag 1992

Two again published by commercial presses in Portugese:

Ondas de Transformacao(Waves of Change) Sao Paolo: Summus Editorial 1995 and

Principio da Totalidada(Wholeness Principle) Sao Paolo: Summus Editorial 1991 —Preceding unsigned comment added by LEMspare (talk • contribs) 16:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

2. I've included the following secondary sources that critique/address his work. The problem is that they all occurred before the Internet, and in reaching the publications, where appropriate, was told older articles were not archived to digitization for the Internet. As you can see, he has articles, TV and radio interviews, etc,. about his work.

"Achieving Resonance,” Reuben, Carolyn, In: LA Weekly, August 28, 1987.

"Heilung Durch Kommunikation" (Healing Through Communication)Sabetti, Stephano, In Heilung aus der Mitte(Healing From the Center), Devillard, Anne    Zwickau, Germany: Driediger Verlag, 2009 --LEMspare (talk) 16:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC) “Life Energy for the Whole Organization” (Livsenergi For Att Hela Organisationen), In: Swedish Economist, June 7, 1986.

“Management Nach Dem Vorbild Der Natur,” (Management Based On a Model of Nature) In: Süddeutsche Zeitung, (South German News) July 29, 1989.

“New Age,” Discussion of Life Energy Therapy In: Talk (Norwegian bi-monthly), February/March, 1988.

“Professor Teaches Us a Holistic View of What’s Within the Self” (Gammal Klopskap For Manniskan Hel), In: Dagens Nyhter (Stockholm daily), November 25, 1986.

"The Spirited Soul," (Die Seele Begeistern) Discussion of Life Energy Therapy In: Tanz Aktuell, March, 1992.

“The Wholeness Principle,” Preit, Robert (moderator), KGIL Los Angeles Radio Interview with Sabetti, September 9, 1987.

"The Wholeness Principle, Life Energy, and AIDS," Tremaglio, Melinda, (moderator) Television Interview for Lifestyle Update Los Angeles with Sabetti, August 14, 1997.

“Time Sensing,” In: Madame May, 1991. “Wholeness and Health,” Green, Richard (moderator) KFOX Los Angeles Radio Interview with Sabetti, December 15, 1987. “Wholeness Is a Necessity in Our Society,” In: Whole Life Monthly, August

3. He currently has seven You Tube clips from lectures available and 23,700 items under Google search.

4. I addressed this issue with at least two other administators already. I did not include in the article his books as references because I was told it hyped the books too much and would appear as an infomercial if I cited them. Therefore I only included two externsal links to associations with whom he is affiliated.

5. In perusing the list of American Spiritual Writers, I can't help but notice the lack of consistent strict adherence with respect to Wikipedia notability policy e.g., some articles have NO references. This seems both inconsistent and I can't help but feel this is unfairly punitive in the Sabetti article case.

6. References to Sabetti sometimes appear under the subject matter. For example, one article relating to new organizational paradigms: Does God Have a Big Toe? http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/quantum-ebook.pdf mentions Sabetti's Wholearchy as a new organizational model as well Tom Peters and Rosbeth Moss Kantor, two noted organization gurus.In another example, Sabetti was the progenitor of Quantum Evolution Congress, which had notables like Meg Wheatley (org. behavior),Amit Goswami and Bill Tiller (both physics pioneers) on the roster.

7. With respect to spam, links to other material, including his books, were excluded. I included only two external links,which I'd be happy to remove, though he started several institutes in Europe and believe I satisfied the administrator Fughettaboutit on this count.

7. Finally, I would be willing to make any further adjustments deemed important.I don't feel it's necessary or merited that the article is deleted because he isn't a best-seller or the fact that he has spent most of his career working in Europe means that his U.S. press and other media exposure is limited primarily to the 1980's, when he spent more time in the States.

I thank you for your attention and utmost consideration--LEMspare (talk) 18:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment:
 * 1. The cited works do not seem to be academically rigorous or in any other way meet the requirements of WP:RS, and some are clearly just PR centres.


 * 3. YouTube is not a reliable source


 * 4. I am sure that you were told that the article must contain reliable sources if it is to be retained. The author's own works clearly don't count in this respect.


 * 5. Inconsistency with respect to other articles isn't grounds for keeping an article that fails to meet WP guidelines.


 * 6. This doesn't address notability as per WP policy. The link is to a self-published fringe site - again, not a reliable source.


 * andy (talk) 19:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks Andy, I've Made Changes


 * Thanks for your suggestions. I've removed the Press Bureau articles and I've included the commercial press publications in Germany and Portugal of Sabetti books--LEMspare (talk) 16:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC).--LEMspare (talk) 17:04, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Note: I've checked out several of the "references" and I'm not impressed. For example California Press Bureau Syndication, Lifestyle Update, Madame and the Glendale Church of Religious Science scarcely count as reliable sources. I tried to track down the presentations given to the European Congress of Psychotherapy but couldn't find any conference programmes - and in any case that wouldn't prove notability, and the presentations might not even have been properly peer reviewed. andy (talk) 18:39, 2 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom and per andy. First three of his books I found were published by his own institute = self-publishing to me. Peridon (talk) 22:26, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There again, looking at the list in the article, they appear all to be self-published. Peridon (talk) 22:35, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

"I would vote to NOT delete Stèphano Sabetti on Wikipedia. Why? Isn't Wikipedia the most democratic imformative website in the world? What happens to diversity then? I have attended some of his workshops and read his books. This is a man with extensive knowledge about bodywork, Eastern and Western medicine and somatics, academic psychology, energy psychology, spirituality, and more. Some might even consider him wise. He is articulate, nuanced and human. He is compassionate and passionate. He is also sharp, and can tell it like it is. and all of this - with love. Do we really want to leave the e-media (as well as all the other media) to the guys with the quickest fixes and the slickets pitches? Please, people! If Wikipedia has become "too big" - then I suggest you open a branch office. Don't delete Dr. Sabetti!" Posted by User Lynn6649. Copied to this discussion by Peridon (talk) 21:29, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Moved to this page from the article's talk page:
 * Response to above There is plenty of diversity on Wikipedia, but as it is an encyclopaedia we need reliable outside references rather than personal endorsements. Democracy without rules is anarchy. Without our rules here, Wikipedia would be overwhelmed by pages proclaiming that "Shawn is awwwweeeesssssommme!!!!" and adverts for the local grasscutting service (est. 2009, 2 employees and a dog). We don't want to delete Dr Sabetti. We will delete his article if it is not shown to be notable by our rules. (It's our ball, it's our field...) Peridon (talk) 21:29, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.