Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steve McClellan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 14:06, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Steve McClellan

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

No WP:RS whatsoever, fails WP:GNG. Meeanaya (talk) 13:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Meeanaya, article has been expanded and improved to Start class. I will submit it for DYK today and would appreciate a swift conclusion to this AfD. Thank you. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:37, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Minnesota-related deletion discussions. Icewhiz (talk) 13:41, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 14:36, 11 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. I disagree with the characterization of the Star Tribune and Village Voice Media as not being reliable sources. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:21, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I completely agree that Star Tribune'' and Village Voice Media are reliable sources but the problem, they are not covering Steve McClellan in-depth. Is the page about "Steve McClellan" or his company? If it is his company page, I agree but if it is about Business executive, he fails in-depth news coverage and fails to establish his notability without in-depth RS. Meeanaya (talk) 18:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Please point to the guideline saying I must include in-depth resources? As written, I disagree with this AfD because of your statement above: "No WP:RS whatsoever, fails WP:GNG." There are lots of other sources but I prefer to deal with what we have now. -SusanLesch (talk) 21:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Xe pointed to Notability in the nomination, and you just quoted that. The subject must be covered in depth.  It must be possible to make more than a permastub out of what the sources provide. Uncle G (talk) 06:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Uncle G. One of the sources given fell out of the Internet Archive (it was 12 pages and they have about 3) and the other puts me over the limit for free articles at the Star Tribune. If you guys can give me a few days I am pretty sure this could easily be a Start or C class article. One of these is an interview but here are four other sources that clearly establish notability. Pioneer Press, Bring Me the News, City of Minneapolis, Star Tribune. Plus I think McClellan signed every contract here including this remarkable one for Prince in 1981 just after he signed with Warner Brothers. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:20, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep; I would say the Star Tribune is certainly a reliable source. PCN02WPS  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 16:01, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The entire documentation of this subject by it cited so far is 16 words, though. That's not in-depth documentation of this person's life and works. Uncle G (talk) 06:22, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Meeanaya seemed to make the claim that there were no reliable sources whatsoever. But I think he meant to say that none of the sources given, while reliable, established notability. We can easily take care of that now. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:29, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect to First Avenue. There is also an article in the StarTribune about the Mayor declaring “Steve McCellan Day” that isn’t sourced here, and that’s at least one source pointing towards notability. But there needs to be more to establish stand alone notability. As for the others cited, RS or not, the problem is that they are not about Steve McClellan, but rather are about First Avenue, the venue he co-owned. (BTW, it’s not Village Voice, it is the City Pages—confusion, perhaps, because Village Voice Inc. is the parent company of the City Pages). Both are Minneapolis papers. The City Pages article is an oral history about the venue, where McClellan is one among dozens of people quoted about it. The Minneapolis Star Tribune article merely name checks him as the former operator. A google search turns up similar articles of namechecks and quotes, in both RS and non-RS, but like the rest they are about his involvement with First Avenue. Unless more can be brought forward that establish him as being independently notable beyond his involvement with the venue, a redirect is best. ShelbyMarion (talk) 13:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * A couple things, ShelbyMarion. McClellan left First Avenue in 2005. Other people run it now. City Pages was owned by Village Voice Media when the article given was written. Today it is owned by Star Tribune. Publishers can make a difference thus I cited them by name. Here's yet another source that helps to establish notability. I am inclined to continue to expand this article to Start or C class. -SusanLesch (talk) 14:25, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Hopefully you'll have better luck than I did in finding significant sources; however you will not be able to include the one you cited above as independent because it is his profile on the website of the organization he founded. ShelbyMarion (talk) 15:02, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Which goes to show he has a life separate and apart from First Avenue. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:37, 12 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep I would like to point out that, as well as WP:GNG, there is WP:BASIC, which says: "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability". I would also note that saying this person is a "business executive" of a "company", as does above, does not adequately describe his role at all.
 * I have found some sources outside Minnesota, which have some statements about McClellan: "The guy who first brought in Prince to perform was the club's longtime manager, Steve McLellan." . Dave Pirner is quoted as saying Steve McLellan was "irreplaceable".
 * In Inc. Magazine (01/05/2005, Vol. 27 Issue 5, p51-52), in an article about Allan Fingerhut (who owned First Avenue): "Nightclub veterans Steve McClellan and lack Meyers handled day-to-day operations, from overseeing the bar staff to booking acts. .... First Avenue continued to prosper. In fact, Fingerhut was so pleased with the business that in 2000, along with Frank, McClellan, Meyers, and Fingerhut's brother, Ron, he formed a partnership that purchased the building that housed the club. .... In March 2003, shortly after getting the bill for back taxes, Fingerhut fired Frank from the club, sending the pink slip in the mail. Not long after, he boarded a plane for Minneapolis and fired Meyers and McClellan, who had grown increasingly bitter after Frank's departure. .... Frank, Meyers, and McClellan all filed wrongful termination suits against their former boss ..... Frank, McClellan, and Meyers formed a partnership and purchased the club's assets for a mere $200,000. They reopened First Avenue on November 20--without Fingerhut. ... McClellan, for his part, still helps with the club's communications and strategy".
 * The John Dougan source (already in the article) is a review of several books, and the book the quote is taken from, First Avenue: Minnesota's Mailroom by Chris Riemenschneider, may well have more about McClellan in it. The review also says about McClellan that he was "indefatigable, the club's general manager and principal talent buyer for 25 years".
 * Other Star Tribune sources include one that has a list of 10 unforgettable Minnesota characters, with McClellan at #1: "For nearly three decades, this cranky, cantankerous curmudgeon ran First Avenue, making it into an internationally known nightclub. He wasn't easy to get along with, but you couldn't argue with his dedication and taste."
 * In 2016, there was a play called Complicated Fun: The Minneapolis Music Scene, and the article says "The historic figure who cuts the widest swath in Berks' play is Steve McClellan, the big bear of a man who managed and booked First Avenue for years. ... McClellan gets nearly universal credit for integrating First Avenue audiences by bringing Prince and his many talented associates into downtown. At the same time, McClellan ... gave the smaller 7th Street Entry over to the punk and new wave bands that were sprouting up. ... McClellan was able to forge relationships with the musicians. Chris Osgood (Suicide Commandos)... said McClellan "treated us fairly." ... "You have to credit Steve McClellan and [the Longhorn's] Hartley Frank with nurturing the scene, said Chan Poling."
 * Another couple of books that verify info: The Replacements: All Over But the Shouting describes McLellan as "Former manager of the First Avenue nighclub, and founder of the Minneapolis nonprofit DEMO" ; and Continuum encyclopedia of popular music of the world, in only a snippet view, says "Since 1978, the club has been managed by Steve McClellan, and his commitment to promoting Twin Cities-area artists has been ...".
 * While it's true that most of what I've found is about Steve McClellan at First Avenue, it seems clear to me that he wasn't just a manager. The sources talk about what he did, and what he was like, and the huge impact he had on the music scene. The work he has done since leaving First Avenue is sourced. Apart from WP:BASIC, I think it could be argued that he meets one of the creative SNGs, eg WP:CREATIVE #1 "The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors" or WP:ENTERTAINER #3 "Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment." RebeccaGreen (talk) 12:04, 17 August 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.