Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sub Rosa (company)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. After two reposts, additional sources were found, but there was no general agreement that they were sufficient for notability. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  13:49, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Sub Rosa (company)

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Blatant promotion and typical press coverage. Light2021 (talk) 13:04, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:08, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:08, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment nycjoshblack I have cleaned up this entry to account for accusations of "blatant promotion." The client work section and other extraneous content has been removed. How can the deletion notice be removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nycjoshblack (talk • contribs) 20:26, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades Godric  05:55, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete -- this content should be excluded per WP:NOTSPAM. Especially surprising is a full listing of this company's podcast episodes, as in:
 * "In March 2016, Sub Rosa launched a monthly conversation and podcast series called Applied Empathy" Etc.
 * K.e.coffman (talk) 22:39, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: To discuss the newly provided sources
 * Delete Fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:SPIP and GNG. Even with the client list deleted by nycjoshblack above, the remaining article is still blatent promotionalism. (Also odd that the article creator only performed one edit). I have also submitted a related topic Michael Ventura (entrepreneur) for deletion. -- HighKing ++ 14:30, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment nycjoshblack Additional edits have been made to the page. Sources include a White House Fact Sheet, The New York Times, CBS Sports, Adweek, Inc., Fast Company, and Forbes. As Sub Rosa has worked with The White House and is credited in offical White House correspondence and is the agency of record for Tiger Woods, the evidence of notability is now improved. Language has been modified to be objective and only state facts, so as not to be a brochure. Applied Empathy is still mentioned, because it was written about by AIGA, the oldest association of graphic designers in the United States. However, the individual podcast episodes have been removed. Please reconsider this page for Wikipedia. Thank you, editors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nycjoshblack (talk • contribs) 17:57, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - for two reasons 1) on the basis of notable client work - mentioned in lede: (White House, Tiger Woods and Pantone), as well as work not mentioned in the article but found in Digiday.com and Media Post profiles (Levis, General Electric, Nike) [] []; and 2) the NY Times calling them well-respected. [] This does need more work to clean up, and the admitted and possible non-admitted COI will make this a hard sell, but they are notable. TimTempleton (talk) (cont)  07:46, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  So Why  17:54, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually WP:Notability says Publication in a reliable source is not always good evidence of notability. Wikipedia is not a promotional medium. Self-promotion, autobiography, product placement and most paid material are not valid routes to an encyclopedia article so knowing who they worked with is simply a repeat of whatever their own company website says. SwisterTwister   talk  18:10, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. <li> The article notes: "Mr. Ventura founded Sub Rosa, then called Seed, in late 2004 as an exclusively digital agency. At the time that meant building microsites for smaller clients, Mr. Ventura said. Among the agency's first large clients was Mtn Dew; Seed hatched the noted Green Label Art campaign, which would help expand the beverage brand beyond its extreme-sports roots. ... The shop began offering video and experiential services to more big-brand clients, including Estée Lauder, Diesel and Absolut, and by 2008 had grown to a staff of 30 led by four partners. ...  In late 2008 Seed was also in preliminary acquisition talks, but the price wasn't right. Mr. Ventura eventually bought out his other partners, renamed the shop Sub Rosa and scaled back to fewer than a dozen staff members, which he said is more conducive to the agency's efforts to focus on interaction. (He said this restructuring wasn't reflective of the poor economy, and maintains that it has always been profitable.)  ...  Sub Rosa also partnered with General Electric on a series of product installations for one of the energy giant's recent conferences, where it announced the expansion of its 'Ecomagination' initiatives. These included a demonstration of a GE wind turbine through the production of an actual 15-foot-long cloud, onto which wind-power statistics were projected."</li> <li> The article notes: "Ten years ago, at the tender age of 23, Michael Ventura started his own digital shop after being laid off from an agency job. It was a time when scrappy, little digital agencies were becoming attractive to some brands that wanted to try stuff that their traditional agencies wouldn’t do. Fast forward to today, and Ventura’s agency Sub Rosa isn’t so scrappy anymore: it now employs 45 people, and over the last year, its business grew by 361 percent — and it’s no longer just a digital shop."</li> <li> The article notes: "This is how Manhattan boutique Seed Communications, in its mere eight months of existence, has grown to manage about 45 accounts. That's about three times the number of staffers it employs. And while many are small assignments for small brands, others aren't. ... Seed is doing product-placement and urban-influencer work for Reebok, it's talking to Vonage about an online viral project, and it's worked on media relations for video-game maker Ubisoft. This week, Seed-a collection of agency types and the aforementioned hip-hop magazine editors-spreads itself into editorial content with the launch of Inked, a quarterly magazine designed to give the tattooed something significantly more upscale than the old-school biker-oriented publications now on racks." Seed is the name of the company before it was renamed to Sub Rosa according to this article from Advertising Age.</li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Sub Rosa to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 05:11, 27 July 2017 (UTC) </ul>
 * The article largely contains facts. It is not overly promotional. Cunard (talk) 05:11, 27 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Unchanged (still "Delete"). The sources presented above are largely industry press, where the level of independence can be presumed to be lower than in general business press. Likewise, the sources in the article are similar, presenting the founders POV, as in ""New Model Agency: Sub Rosa CEO Michael Ventura explains life under the rose", etc. The article does not have a chance of developing beyond a directory-like listing, based on available sources. WP:NCORP specifically discourages such articles. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:42, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete as the above sources are still fundamentally founded in press releases and primaries, see Ventura founded Sub Rosa, Ventura said, Although the agency's, The shop began offering, Ventura eventually bought, Sub Rosa also partnered with, Michael Ventura started his own digital shop, it now employs 45 people, and....", "....manage about 45 accounts....number of staffers it employs....", "it's talking to Vonage about an online viral project, and it's worked on media relations for video-game maker Ubisoft"; none of that is actually meaningful for notability since it says we need independent coverage of the company's own publishings, therefore their own name stamped on it is certainly not that. I also noticed a heavy similarity between sources 1 and 2 yet they were 3 years apart and a different publisher, that can only mean one thing and it's the company's authorship. Next, our notability and policies make clear we need multiple sources for notability so, even this, as thin as they are wouldn't be significant. While the Keep offers GNG as a basis, that page actually says A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It is not excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy." and I see nothing as to why this company is exempt from it.  SwisterTwister   talk  18:10, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Advertising-related deletion discussions. North America1000 15:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. North America1000 15:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.