Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Subhodhayam


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to K. Viswanath. Consensus is sourcing is of insufficient quality. However no case made not to redirect. Star  Mississippi  12:03, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Subhodhayam

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Currently, there is not a single in-depth reference from an independent, reliable secondary source. Even the Rotten Tomatoes site has zero reviews (and I've actually never seen that before). At least one of the sources, this one, doesn't even mention the film. Was draftified, but returned to mainspace immediately, without any additional in-depth sourcing. Fails WP:GNG.  Onel 5969  TT me 19:32, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Film and India.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:36, 18 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Redirect to K. Viswanath who is the director and writer. Not enough information to make an independent film article. Sources provided only show that the film existed and who played in it. Viswanath's article doesn't even indicate it was a significant work.  AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 20:50, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Retain The article (Satisfies Notability guidelines). Following are independent sources included in the article, in addition the article also contains published news paper sources highlighting about the film which was also remade in Hindi. The article is not based on rotten tomatoes and imdb. They are just supporting sources.
 * https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281059181_Inclusiveness_through_art_films_in_Telugu_A_modern_to_postmodern_analysis_of_K_Viswanath's_films
 * https://www.moviebuff.com/subhodayam
 * https://www.filmiclub.com/movie/subhodayam-1980-telugu-movie
 * https://moviegq.com/movie/subhodayam-8634/cast-crew
 * Notability is well established in the article Fostera12 (talk) 07:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * These only show the film exists, not that it is notable. These are equivalent to IMDb, especially Moviebuff, Filmiclub, MovieGQ. AngusW🐶🐶F  ( bark  •  sniff ) 00:26, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Most importantly this scholarly article is clearly an independent source highlighting about the film - https://intellectdiscover.com/content/journals/10.1386/dmas.1.3.413_1 is found from google scholar article links provided by Wikipedia. Suggest to help retain this article, without putting emphasis on somebody's personal bias and competition. Fostera12 (talk) 03:22, 20 March 2023 (UTC) *Keep: In addition to this '''Latha Srinivasan from India today cites "While Siri Siri Muvva (1976) showed his understanding of the craft, it was Sankarabharam (1980) that proved his mastery over it. In fact, many of director K Viswanath’s films were far ahead of their time. K Viswanath started to actively explore human relationships and social issues, and each of his films struck a chord with the audience. If he spoke about untouchability in Saptapadi, then he highlighted the respectability manual labour deserved in Subhodayam and Swayamkrushi". (https://www.indiatoday.in/movies/regional-cinema/story/k-viswanath-passes-away-92-why-the-filmmaker-par-excellence-was-a-guru-and-legend-in-indian-cinema-2329928-2023-02-03). This clearly highlights Subhodayam as one of K. Viswanath's most notable social films. Note: Please read all the sources carefully, dont just blindly say not notable just for arguments sake. I do not have any personal interest in this. This is commonsense. It is okay if independent sources lack review of the film in this case. The article is extremely well sourced over all. "Bollywood Calling - The 1976 film Siri Siri Muvva changed the way the audience viewed his work, with his films becoming more artistic since then. He remade it in Hindi in 1979 as Sargam". The 1982 film Kaamchor was a remake of Subhodayam "He followed it up with more remakes of his Telugu hits Saptapadi with Sridevi and Mithun Chakraborty as Jaag Utha Insaan, Shubodayam with Rakesh Roshan and Jayaprada as Kaamchor, Swati Mutyam as Eshwar with Anil Kapoor and Vijayashanti, Jeevana Jyothi as Sanjog with Jeetendra and Jayaprada, Subhalekha as Sangeeth with Rakesh Roshan and Rati Agnihotri, and many more". (https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/movies/k-viswanath-who-passed-away-on-the-43rd-anniversary-of-his-iconic-film-sankarabharanam-broke-star-stereotypes-in-his-films/article66466706.ece) This clearly highlights Subhodayam as one of K. Viswanath's hit films In addition, this is clearly significant coverage of the film and article is significantly improved Fostera12 (talk) 14:29, 20 March 2023 (UTC) Which is the case here. — MY, OH, MY ! 18:02, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Retain. The film is discussed in scholarly sources and in retrospectives of K. Viswanath's career. It is a notable film. Reviews would be available in Telugu dailies of the time like Andhra Patrika and Andhra Jyothi whose archives may not have been digitized. Reo kwon (talk) 08:15, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment - the above 4 sources include a brief mention, and three db entries, with no in-depth coverage. Onel 5969  TT me 09:44, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Sources provided are not adequate for notability. Coverage needs to be in-depth. I found nothing in a search. Donald D23   talk to me  12:57, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Retain - added new sources
 * https://www.4to40.com/poems-for-kids/poems-in-hindi/mal-de-gulal-mohe-ayi-holi-ayi-re-indeevar/
 * https://indiancine.ma/VGS/info Fostera12 (talk) 15:57, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Neither of which is in-depth about the film.  Onel 5969  TT me 16:30, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Additional Independent sources Retain
 * 4to40 site above link is indepth about the film as it is clearly mentioning as original to Kamchor
 * Subhodayam screening (kanakamahal theater, Nellore, 1980, Nov) in Zaminryot telugu newsarchive, pg 10 - http://www.zaminryot.com/pdf/1980/Nov/7-nov-1980.pdf
 * Theatrical release poster - http://telugucineblitz.blogspot.com/2012/06/subhodayam-1980.html
 * I couldn't find the date and review in Zaminryot — DaxServer (t · m · c) 10:59, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, thank you for your input, I have updated my comment, but the source zaminryot is reliable, and independent. so you would want to retain the article ? Fostera12 (talk) 13:43, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: Has enough sources. Kailash29792 (talk)  07:18, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep three editors (including me) would want to retain the article considering enough sources (in addition to 3 independent sources) which establishes the notability of the film.Fostera12 (talk) 13:45, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Independent sources don't establish notability, significant coverage does, of which there isn't close to enough sourcing to satisfy.  Onel 5969  TT me 14:29, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Time of India cites
 * SB Vijaya Mary of The Hindu cites
 * Keep cf WP:NF
 * "The film features significant involvement (i.e., one of the most important roles in the making of the film) by a notable person and is a major part of their career. An article on the film should be created only if there is enough information on it that it would clutter up the biography page of that person if it was mentioned there."

Majority of the editors would keep and retain the article. Kindly do the needful and close the discussion asap, so that I can focus on improving the other aspects of the article.Fostera12 (talk) 02:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 *  Keep 
 * Fostera12, you can only cast one "vote" and you have already voted 3 or 4 times. Plus, AFD discussions last at least one week so this discussion won't be closed for a few more days (if it's not relisted for another week). Have patience and please do not bludgeon this discussion. I think you have made enough comments. Liz Read! Talk! 07:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay got it. My intention is not bludgeon. I do not know that I can caste one "vote" Fostera12 (talk) 07:50, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NYC Guru (talk) 08:49, 25 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment - In most retrospectives of K. Viswanath's career, the film is discussed or mentioned. Here are some from major Telugu media outlets that mentioned the film or its themes: 10TV, TV9, Eenadu, NTV, News18. Reo kwon (talk) 17:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Fostera12 (talk) 04:18, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.