Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suga (entertainer)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to BTS (band).The arguments of independent-notability have been well-rebuttled. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 04:44, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Suga (entertainer)

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AfDs for this article:  See WP:NBAND. Not independently notable; I think we've been down this road before. The guy's got a mixtape, that's basically it. Drmies (talk) 05:26, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  M assiveYR   ♠  06:21, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  M assiveYR   ♠  06:21, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Korea-related deletion discussions.  M assiveYR   ♠  06:21, 11 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep. This BTS member has been subject to significant coverage independent from his group to establish notability. There are extensive interviews which discuss his stage name for his mixtape, its lyrical content, why he chose to release it for free over a commercial album, etc, including Grazia Korea, Marie Claire Korea , Naver Starcast . He has received more coverage beyond that in the Busan Ilbo , Newsen , and various other outlets. He has received coverage from reliable English-language sources like Billboard (about him)  (about his mixtape) and Fuse  (which ranked his mixtape as one of the best in 2016 at #16). In this case, a stand-alone article is merited here.  ℯ  xplicit  07:22, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect: this article has been created/recreated and then deleted/redirected multiple times (most recently at Suga (musician), the individual has not released any singles (his one charted song "First Love" is from an album in which all group members had a solo track). I added input on Talk:Suga (musician) not so long ago, but even then I was not entirely sure of how international sources made all the difference. Abdotorg (talk) 12:06, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: If the result is keep I very much think that the Suga (musician) article should be restored in place of the current Suga (entertainer). Abdotorg (talk) 14:47, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep User explicit has more than demonstrated the notability here aboveEgaoblai (talk) 14:22, 11 September 2017 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egaoblai (talk • contribs) 14:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to BTS (band). BTS is very popular and is definitely notable. Suga is also quite popular, but it is true that he is popular for being part of BTS. He has recently released a mixtape and in the future he may garner enough attention that he will be known solely for his own acts. Currently, I think it is fair to redirect so that the content can be saved and later restored when he gains solo popularity.--DreamLinker (talk) 15:28, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect I don't see how he is independently notable just because he has released a mixtape. I barely acknowledge V as notable enough but at least he was part of a popular drama however if we follow the citeria for WP:NBAND then he is notable enough because the first part says "Musicians [...] may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria" and Explicit proved that Suga "has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself." Although I wonder if a free mixtape released via SoundCloud is really enough to justify an own article.--Thebestwinter (talk) 17:24, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep: As mentioned above he has his solo mixtape and is from a very popular band. Starting this year he has stepped out of BTS and began to produce songs for others. Ukiss2ne14lyfe (talk) 20:45, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to band article. Clearly not enough independent coverage from reliable, secondary sources. Interviews are primary, and therefore cannot be used to establish notability.  Onel 5969  TT me 16:36, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to band article. Does not have significant, in-depth coverage separately from band. Neutralitytalk 04:09, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you please expand on how you searched for, read through, and assessed Korean-language sources and came to the conclusion that the subject is not independently notable from his group? Especially considering, in addition to the examples provided above, this article discussing the symbolism and themes of the "Agust D" music video, this article detailing the mixtape tracks, this article about his background and the history of the mixtape, and this extensive review from a magazine. ℯ  xplicit  07:14, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I do not know Korean, though I have been listening to KPop for years now. Part of my decision comes from my personal knowledge. Part of it is also due to the quality of sources. This magazine review for example, seems to be a site like medium where people can sign up and post articles. The #16 at Fuse is not an official chart but simply an editorial opinion. (There are many such sites which provide that). The billboard article essentially talks about Suga as a member of BTS, not as a solo artist. The Busan Ilbo, Newsen and other sources are the same news that he has released a mixtape (this kind of reporting is pretty common when a member of a famous band releases a solo album/mixtape, due to the press release being sent). I don't give a lot of weightage to short album reviews (they are fairly common). Essentially, what has happened is "a member of BTS has released a solo mixtape". But there is not enough coverage which distinguishes Suga's own unique role from that of BTS. (Sometime in the future, he may become independently notable). But I think right now is too soon. (Which is why I prefer a redirect, instead of deleting the content).--DreamLinker (talk) 16:29, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep: BTS as a whole is immensely popular, not to mention, the individual members have actually done a fair amount of things that just haven't been added yet (magazine spreads, for example). Seeing as that even less popular groups end up with individual wiki pages, I feel that a separate page is logical. The guy has contributed to a lot of songwriting, and seeing as he'll likely do even more in later years, for now, I believe that he needs a page. Even if it considers him an entertainer, I think the page should exist. — 76.121.238.45 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 17:38, September 24, 2017 (UTC).

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  J 947(c) (m) 19:21, 18 September 2017 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: To decide if sources are enough to maintain an article over a redirect
 * Redirect to band article for failing notability guidelines. This isn't about a band member being "good" or that people "like" them, it's about whether or not they deserve an encyclopedic article. Just because other articles about less popular bandmates exists does not logically imply this one should, please see WP:WHATABOUTX. Ifnord (talk) 18:27, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 *  Keep or redirect - Keep the article, or redirect it with history, but do NOT delete. --Jax 0677 (talk) 18:57, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 20:36, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to BTS (band); not independently notable. Having a mixtape does not meet WP:CREATIVE, and there's nothing else there. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:36, 28 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.