Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sultan-ul-Arifeen


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. In view of the socking problems, I'm disregarding any new user and IP comments, which makes the outcome rather clear.  Sandstein  11:35, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Sultan-ul-Arifeen

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One-sentence article failing WP:NOTDIC.  Pax 02:43, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  06:58, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spirituality-related deletion discussions.  B E C K Y S A Y L E S  06:58, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:45, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Convert to disambig. This is used locally as a personal name (and, by extension, the name of that person's shrine):, , ,.
 * Another option would be delete and redirect to Hamza Makhdum with hatnote to Sultan Bahu who is also, albeit rarely, titled "Sultan-ul-Arifeen" (this second option risks wrath of User:Mrashid364 and socks).  kashmiri  TALK  10:10, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment to closing admin: Please note that this one and several other AFDs on related subjects have been the target of sockpuppetry and several SPAs. See Sockpuppet_investigations/Mrashid364 for more information. Bjelleklang -  talk 18:29, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

* No Redirection Needed. The suggested redirection to Hamza Makhdoom should not be acted upon. Since there is not any authentic declaration of hamza makhoom being awarded the title of Sultan ul Arifeen in given citation 1. Hence due to absence of family lineage and generic info, the provided reference is not valid and seems like a myth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roship (talk • contribs) 13:21, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove. Remove the fake disclaimer Hamza Makhdoom who has no connection with the title Sultan ul Arifeen, instead of deleting this article.Roship (talk) 14:09, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Remove. MAYASA Enterprises in the reference 1, citation 1, fails WP:ORG . There is no trace of the said organization which is referring Hamza Makhdoom .Roship (talk) 14:18, 9 January 2015 (UTC) [Account blocked, see WP:Sockpuppet_investigations/Mrashid364.]


 * Delete. I did not find any marks of MAYASA Enterprises anywhere relating to any religious reference. It fails WP:ORG . And there is not any published or documented proof of Hamza Makhdoom to carry this religious title Sultan ul Arifeen. So Hamza Makhdoom and his related info must be deleted from this religious title. 39.59.51.86 (talk) 19:06, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I am sorry but you have to come to terms with the fact that your Pakistani organisation does not own this Arabic title and cannot stop folks across the world from using it for other respected people.  kashmiri TALK  22:29, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * If disambiguation is suggestion, what else we would include in disambiguation? Bladesmulti (talk) 10:29, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That's the problem. The title is used by two communities: (1) by the population of the Kashmir Valley, as a sort of alternate name to denote the local saint Hamza Makhdum and/or his shrine (examples are in the sources); and (2) by some folks in Pakistan, as one of many honorifics of Sultan Bahu, a widely known and influential Sufi mystic, although this particular title of his is neither widely known or used. However, the second community, gathered around a small religious organisation in Lahore, is apparently strong on Wikipedia, has done a number of POV edits (including even deletion of Hamza Makhdum article), and operates a number of socks. So, while a redirection to the more common use (by Google search) Hamza Makhdum would be fair, this would risk constant edit wars with the Pakistani group - and I will not monitor this article indefinitely. That's the reason I proposed turning this into disambiguation. Hope this clarifies.  kashmiri TALK  12:45, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Redirecting (to Hamza Makhdoom) will work, let us all agree with so that some agreement can be made. Bladesmulti (talk) 04:18, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Redirecting to Hamza Makhdoom is absolutely unjustifiable and Non-Rational decision due to the facts 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16, This is a title not a name and Sultan Bahu is most strong on this Title and Spiritual Status in the context of Websites and even boobs which are 1 2 3 4 5 6.So not relate it with single Personality, keep this title separate and add more facts in this Article, if you want to redirect it on a single personality then ground reality is most strong in favor of Sultan Bahu even i fails to fine a single written book in favor of Hamza Makhdoom. Deletion or Redirect Tags are wrong and improvement tag is more suitable for this Article, Due to some users do not mixup facts in favor of single personality.182.185.147.141 (talk) 13:58, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Strong delete This article has only one sentence, two citations and no proof that the term is noteworthy at all. The fact that it fails WP:GNG also means, by virtue of that, that it fails a whole host of other more specific notability guidelines. It should also not be lost on the closer that those defending the article have already been mentioned on the above SPI as "probably" being socks and the citations here all seem to return to the whole Articles for deletion/Sultan-ul-Faqr Publications Regd. advertising fiasco. This could almost have been speedied. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:59, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Multiple mentions in a few reliable citations, redirecting will work. Bladesmulti (talk) 04:48, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Strong Rejection of Deletion and Keep SeparateSultan Bahu was born in Shorekot, Jhang in the current Punjab Province of Pakistan,The shrine of Sultan Bahu, located in Garh Maharaja, Punjab,The national language of Pakistan is Urdu,Here are some book covers on which Title Sultan ul Arifeen سلطان العارفین written in Urdu Language,These books are written by Sultan Bahu in Persian language about 370 years ago and translated in Urdu by different persons 1 2 34 5, So how redirecting will work? 202.166.163.146 (talk) 08:45, 13 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:NOTDIC is indeed the crux of the issue here. If this was a case of a term which referred to unique position/social role which could be sourced and discussed in an encyclopedic manner, it's status as a stub would not be a problem, but as the article references only an honorific, this is clearly a Wiktionary entry, if anything, not a Wikipedia article.  S n o w  talk 23:04, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.