Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sun Plaza Park


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Tampines. This close is a bit of a reach, insofar as I'm finding "consensus" to do something that only one user actually suggested doing. But there is a clear consensus not to keep a free-standing article on this subject. Two users proposed a redirect to List of parks in Singapore (prior to the suggestion of redirecting to Tampines even coming up. The nominator made a cogent argument against this proposal: that the target article, being a list, would not actually allow for the incorporation of any content, meaning that the redirect would be of no particular purpose.  That rationale, however, does not apply to the proposed redirect to Tampines, which would allow for the incorporation of any sourced content about Sun Plaza Park.  In this situation, I don't think relisting is likely to advance the discussion in a meaningful way, so I'm closing somewhat WP:BOLDly.  In sum, though only one user suggested redirecting to Tampines, that outcome essentially addresses the concerns of all participants in this AFD other than User:FloridaArmy, who was in a minority of one in advocating keeping the article. Steve Smith (talk) 02:39, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Sun Plaza Park

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

The park is in Tampines, and under Tampines there is a slight mention of the park. I think based on WP:NOTGUIDE, this is the only mention that should be warranted. The source needed tag dates from 2009. I really cannot pass this local park as WP:GNG. All the sources I found is saying "Sun Plaza Park lead to Tampines Eco Green" and it is a larger park than this and much more notable, as it has the only eco-toilet, non lit and etc, that have enough sources to make it into an article, but not this. I will take back this nomination if there are any sources (I also visited the National Library, Singapore) but no sources either. Even Google Books are also passing mentions, and can't pass GNG. I don't think there is a need for redirect to Tampines as the mention in Tampines is just one line worth Quek157 (talk) 22:12, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions. Quek157 (talk) 22:33, 10 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete per User:Quek157: Not notable with no sources. "External links" are not primary sources but information that cannot be used for various reasons. Otr500 (talk) 21:27, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 02:02, 15 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Merge, probably to the List of parks in Singapore's "Community parks" section, where it is mentioned, with bare fact of its area. Adding perhaps "The park has a 700-person amphitheatre" or similar would be justified.   We are supposed to seek wp:ATD alternatives to deletion, and here a suitable list-article is available as a good redirect target. --Doncram (talk) 20:43, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose - redirect is the right term for it not merge (just a reminder). I have extensively researched for WP:BEFORE and WP:ATD is always in my mind. Especially for a park I visited quite regularly, I just live a 5km to it and visited it extensively. What can we merge to a LIST which is a LIST. What is in my mind when putting up this for Afd is for someone from outside Singapore to find some sources, then I withdraw my nomination and that's will end it. But I really see no meaning for a redirect, the page doesn't give any kind more of an information than there being a Sun Plaza Park which will make the reader none wiser for this searching. Redirects are cheap, yes, but a redirect to the part where is just a list of Parks doesn't tell you more about the Park? I see no point, anyway, did a google for Sun Plaza Park, that List came up within 10 hits also, so doesn't the need to preserve the redirect for searching. To address the part of 700 seater amphitheater, if we are going to do that, all the other parks in that list (and frankly I visited almost all - we are a nation smaller than D.C) will have some sort of amphitheater. And this is based on Nparks brochure, I don't remember such a structure when I visited the park (and in Singapore, it is used very loosely, a small concrete land with only a few rows of chairs is considered such, every few blocks there is one (in fact this is Housing and Development Board design). And anyway, I am opposed to such redirects is that this is usually the outcome of Singapore Afds, HDB Hub is a redirect to the above, which actually HDB Hub is a shopping mall (inclusive of Toa Payoh Bus Interchange which happens to have HDB HQ above as well as it's a mixed development as Gek Poh Shopping Centre is a 2 storey shopping centre but then redirected to Gek Poh which makes the average reader none wiser as the mention is just a line. Such redirects doesn't improve the quality of Singapore Pages but reduces it. I don't know whether it's an Afd decision or not but such precedents are dangerous. --Quek157 (talk) 21:05, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * will show the amphitheater, this is just a shelter. National Parks Board puffer it up a little. Does it sounds like 700 seater, nope. I never wish any pages in Singapore will disappear, but this just doesn't make it. In Tampines, we have more significant parks like Tampines EcoGreen / Upcoming Quarry Park and etc, and this is just a WP:ROTM park. --Quek157 (talk) 21:27, 16 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep this is definitely a notable park with plenty of coverage about it. It's good sized for an urban park, 9.6 acres, includes an amphitheatre, scultpures, an interactive wall, volleyball, running track, walking paths, and other features. this source dedicates an entire page to the park. In another source, only a snippet view of Singapore (1996) is available online, but the part that's visible says "Another regional park being developed is the Sun Plaza Park. It is based on the theme "Celebration of Life". Located in the heart of Tampines New Town, it will be the recreational focal point for future office workers from the Tampines Regiona..". This is just a taste of the park's coverage and significance. Deletion would be absurd. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:46, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * fun singapore is a travel guide,,"Do you really know Singapore? Is Singapore just a concrete jungle? This guide will surprise you and dispel all the wrong notions about Singapore. It is meant for all - locals, foreigners and tourists. Featuring more than 250 places with pictures, easy instructions on getting there and useful snippets of information, it is a handy and friendly recreation and leisure guide.Go ahead, take your family and friends. Discover, explore, enjoy and have fun!" as description with paid advert disclosuring btw, this is not independent coverage isn't Wikipedia not guide. I also read that particular book, and many different editions as it is in nlb. the second source what book is it but I'm afraid such one liner is rotm. do note that tampines is one of the 4 regional centre in Singapore, so every mention of tampines there will be regional but it cleary not regional in the sense of corpdepth also gng not met isn't it Quek157 (talk) 10:14, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   18:24, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Redirect, bearing in mind that the current wording is promotional. Deb (talk) 19:24, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * To where??? no place seems proper. --Quek157 (talk) 19:40, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * To List of parks in Singapore as suggested above. Deb (talk) 20:05, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Same oppose as above, but can consider if really needed --Quek157 (talk) 20:11, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * If it is already mentioned there, it makes sense to redirect rather than get into a debate about it. We can protect it to make sure the article is not recreated. Deb (talk) 07:12, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * if we really have to close as redirect, I agree with you here --Quek157 (talk) 09:45, 18 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Analysis of new sources
 * 1) Keng, Hsuan; Keng, Ro-Siu Ling Keng (17 May 1990). "The Concise Flora of Singapore: Gymnosperms and Dicotyledons". NUS Press – via Google Books.
 * Yes, I know Tampenis tree is at there, but the entire Tampines is loitered with the tree, e.g. Our Tampines Hub and the rest of the Parks, it is a Nparks intention, shall smaller parks be there - such as Tampines N9 Park, if consensus is such, we will have 400 more parks in Singapore pages.


 * 1) http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20110424-275303.html
 * ROTM mention, this is on Tampines EcoGreen, not Sun Plaza Park


 * 1) https://books.google.com/books?id=sWxtDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA121&dq="sun+plaza+park"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWhPW_3YzbAhVpmK0KHTXvALkQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q="sun%20plaza%20park"&f=false
 * "run through Sun Plaza Park - isn't that ROTM"


 * 1) https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/where-to-go-and-what-to-see-on-downtown-line-3
 * "Cyclists will want to head to Tampines East, which is connected via a cycling path to Sun Plaza Park and Tampines Eco Green." - isn't that ROTM, the entire website have so many places, under other stations, V Hotel in Lavender, if this source will be accepted, that can also be a page


 * 1) https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/bird-owners-of-a-feather-flock-together
 * "Birdies and Family Sg organises three meetings a week - at Buangkok Crescent, Farrer Park and Sun Plaza Park in Tampines." - isn't another ROTM, actually Buangkok Crescent is another community park, but do see "https://www.ura.gov.sg/maps2/?service=mp#" (URA Masterplan, compare the size of Sun Plaza Park with the rest of the green spaces, you will understand how "small" (sorry Tampines Residents - you have your EcoGreen already) it is as compared to others.
 * Side note: not WP:POINT but really why for such a ROTM park so many people are saving it, rather some other more important things I mentioned above got redirected. I appreciate all the efforts to save this page, in my WP:BEFORE I did looked into all the sources mentioned above, but really not enough --Quek157 (talk) 19:50, 17 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Guys, a map . (2MB in size just to prevent data overspent), you will know what is Sun Plaza park per other parks, there are just way too many parks in Singapore. tampines EcoGreen deserve an article but not this --Quek157 (talk) 19:58, 17 May 2018 (UTC) Just in case that map is gone (should be gone by next week), this is another
 * Quek, I noted a couple of the sources that establish notability above. Those aren't the ones you mention, although lots of articles noting aspects of the park certainly helps establish thr park's notability. What is run of the mill about being reported as one of the tourist features to visit in the area? Also, Eco Green Park is ALSO notable. But they are very different parks. As the cited sources note: "The new park (Eco Green Park) also complements the two existing ones in the vicinity. Said Mr Kong Yit San, an Assistant CEO from NParks, "Tampines Eco Green provides a tranquil sanctuary for nature recreation and education, Sun Plaza Park offers amenities for community activities, and Tampines Bike Park provides an adventurous cycling trail." FloridaArmy (talk) 20:23, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:CORPDEPTH??? And mind you that the poor Tampines Bike Park is now redeveloped. The Parks is a Nparks Park, it is the same from this quote that if Bill Gates says a microsoft product, does that product be notable striaght? nope. We need independent sources. Can I create a Park Connector page based on this and not being hauled to Afd? I doubt so --Quek157 (talk) 20:29, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I would add Tampines EcoGreen is notable based on the above sources and may create an article for it if I have time --Quek157 (talk) 20:31, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There is already an article on it and the Bike Park. All three are notable. FloridaArmy (talk) 10:53, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * did you see the blue link above for Tampines Bike Park, definitely notable as it is a venue for the Youth Olympics Games, ecogreen is as passes gng and corpdepth but not this dear Quek157 (talk) 10:59, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Most definitely notable. See the sources I noted above. And has held international sporting competitiona of woodball. And in fact it was Singapore's first woodball course. It is notable the same way and the for the same reasons the other two parks are notable. Subatantial coverage. FloridaArmy (talk) 14:20, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * which sources state it held an international competition for woodball and first woodball course. substantial coverage? multiple sources mentioning something in passing isn't. Quek157 (talk) 15:12, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Did you try Googling it? Not only have international competitions been held there but it is the first woodball course at a public park anywhere in the world. For wanting to delete so strongly you know very little about the park. What about the other features? Many aspects have been covered very subatantially in reliable independent sources. FloridaArmy (talk) 15:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I did is what came out? Any international competitions? Nope. First woodball course at a public park, sources? I know so little about the park? Sorry, I had been to it countless times (did you been to it?). Substantial amount? See WP:CORPDEPTH once more. Reliable sources yes, independent sources yes, but just WP:ROTM. I will not add anymore WP:DEADHORSE.Quek157 (talk) 19:15, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Searching finds little coverage beyond routine mentions in guidebooks. Nothing indicates this is more than a WP:MILL local city park. MB 02:45, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Tampines. It doesn't matter how many trivial mentions you bundle together - they'll never add up to significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. Articles like this do nothing except create work for other editors, and we're all volunteers here. Exemplo347 (talk) 06:17, 19 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.