Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suntukan sa Ace Hardware


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Significant disagreement about the notability and worthiness of this topic relative to Wikipedia's purposes exists in this discussion. Those opining for deletion have stated that the article is promotional as attempted publicity, that the topic is not notable, and that the topic gained coverage per a "slow news day" but lacks notability per "enduring significant coverage in reliable sources". The nominator later followed-up stated that WP:NOTNEWS is applicable regarding the topic and that some of the recent sources added to the article are about a different topic. Users opining for article retention have stated that the topic is notable per sources that have covered the topic, that major news sources have reported about the topic, that it has received "news followup", and that the source coverage is "in-depth" and does not have an "interest in promoting the imaginary event". In a follow-up comment, a user stated that the topic "seems to be too local", "only localized to that local store," and lacks lasting notability, but this notion has been countered with the argument that the topic has received coverage in major news media sources and that it has received "news followup" This discussion has received ample input, but no consensus for a particular action has emerged here. North America1000 10:00, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Suntukan sa Ace Hardware

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Attempted publicity for an imaginary event.  DGG ( talk ) 19:00, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete by far as there's no minimal notability here and nothing at all to suggest anything else convincing from the apparent event. SwisterTwister   talk  19:59, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions.  SwisterTwister   talk  20:00, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions.  SwisterTwister   talk  20:00, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions.  SwisterTwister   talk  20:00, 23 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment, the article maybe notable as an internet phenomena. It has been covered by independent news sources such as ABS-CBN and GMA. Although the structure of the article is problematic. Too "memey". The supposed "8 rules" of the fictitious fistfight is likely not even posted by the organizers of the fictitious event and is more likely a non-serious/just-for-fun synthesis of the 8list.ph. The response of ACE Hardware to the event as a subject in marketing/advertising is a notable aspect of the internet phenomena, information such as if they boost sales from the event, if they failed to take advantage of the event.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 03:29, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Reply: Why delete? Okay. Really, it was an internet (Facebook) phenomena. The event, too "memey"? It was actually considered as meme by [|network or news giant], GMA News and Public Affairs. The response of ACE Hardware really came from their management (because of the damage that the event can do and the mall security can't take on that), and you got the point, they failed to take advantage, that they should do, according to a big person (I forgot his/her name) working on an advertising agency. But later on, they realized that they should use bad publicity as marketing strategy so on the imaginary event date, they prepared small boxing ring where customers can take pictures, coinciding 3-day sale at SM City Lucena. Since, the event page owner took down the page already, I can't confirm if the 8List thingy was really posted on the event page. I am a Filipino and I can say that the 'crazy' event was really trending for how many days. They also relate the event to Baron Geisler, a Filipino actor on these past years that is always related to legal troubles, and even imaginary "Taguro", a take of "Togoru" from Ghost Fighter, so please don't delete the page. Also, you can advice me what I should do to maintain the page. Thanks!-- Manila's PogingJuan / PogingJuan (talk) 10:50, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


 * No, I was talking about the tone of the article being "memey" not calling for the article to be deleted outright for being too "memey". Memes are allowed such as Doge article. Pardon if I'm going to nitpick one particular line but it's clearly that the netizens are joking when they said they cancelled weddings or childbirth. No one disputes that the statement was not really from ACE Hardware. Look I see this article has potential. Here is some advice. Add more references to the article. Discuss the article as if you are an outside observer in a more "serious tone" for the lack of a better term. (I know its a little challenge for something lighthearted for a meme like this but Doge managed to pull it off.). Also if you can manage to retrieve the source on the statement of this person on an ad agency, please do so. Avoid blogs like 8list.com or by non-professionals since these are unreliable sources. This also includes Facebook. Youtube videos can be cited as long as they are from a reputable source. Maybe add some concrete effects on the career of celebrities involve such as Baron Geisler, not only their fictional involvement. I can't assure anything regarding the deletion, since I'm not a moderator but please don't get disheartened about this.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 09:34, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay. I've already got the blog of the President and CCO of Mullenlowe Philippines, the one I've said that is from an ad agency . I'll add it on the article. Thanks!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by PogingJuan (talk • contribs) 10:25, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry! Seems like I forgot to sign. -- Manila's PogingJuan / PogingJuan (talk) 10:27, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Can someone close the discussion? Thank you!
 * Reason: I have explained about the article, that it was an Internet phenomena at the time the imaginary event was posted on Facebook. I've also fixed it and added more references on it. -- Manila's PogingJuan / PogingJuan (talk) 15:52, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment - The comments above however long they are are not actually emphasizing how this can be notable and improved thus there's nothing to keep for now. SwisterTwister   talk  07:36, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - No. It's not because the comments are long so that the article must be 'keep' or discussion must end. Have you considered to visit the article first? As I compare the article now to its oldest revision, I can say that the article now is more notable than the time this afd discussion was started. Do you know what makes this article notable now? Simple. It has third-party reliable sources from GMA Network (GMA News) and ABS-CBN (ABS-CBN News), two of the biggest television networks in the Philippines, INQUIRER.net, one of the most widely read broadsheet newspaper in Metro Manila and the Philippines, FHM Philippines website, and a post from the offcial and verified Facebook page of Ace Hardware Philippines. Now, can you say me what makes the article not notable and improved? By the way, it was also notable and a trend to Filipino netizens. -- Manila's PogingJuan  12:55, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 02:02, 31 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep - As the article currently stands, notability is self evident. It could possibly use more cleanup, and more improvements, but it's clear this made the news and was covered from at least two different angles, and was worthy of news followup as well. Fieari (talk) 06:26, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:N(E)- All improvements that is needed for an event article to be notable are set on this article, comparing when afd was started. All non-notable sources from 8list.ph for example are removed. Since the improvement of the article and afd being relisted, I haven't read any comments from User:DGG, who initiated this afd, and what a 'pro-delete' commenter User:SwisterTwister only commented about my long comments above that don't makes article notable and I think, he didn't even considered to visit the article first to see the difference of 'then' and 'now'. -- Manila's PogingJuan 08:49, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep There are enough articles with more than trivial coverage to meet notability. The in-depth sources don't appear to have an interest in promoting the imaginary event. Gab4gab (talk) 15:02, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - If you think this is better now, you can restart it at userspace, for example: User:PogingJuan/Article or User:PogingJuan/Suntukan sa Ace Hardware. However the case simply seems to be too local and otherwise not convincing for any lasting notability and this was apparently only localized to that local store. Even if you say it's an "Internet phenomenon" and has been known, the article is still questionable and would perhaps read instead like a guide for that event and the "Response" section is particularly not helping either. It was also apparently "fictitious" and never actually happened nearly 2 months ago so even if it was a known "Internet meme", there's nothing else to suggest it's anything else than an apparently planned event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SwisterTwister (talk • contribs) 17:13, 6 June 2016 (UTC) (comment by SwisterTwister)
 * Looking at it again myself, I continue to think it should be deleted. It was a local advertising stunt, which became a very minor meme, with no lasting presence or significance, or likelihood of any. I think the general rule is that such matters are covered by NOT NEWS.  There is a degree of triviality that does not warrant coverage in an encyclopedia.  In order to make it seem more important, references have been added for another event, claimed to be related.  But this seems to have been an expected  confrontation between lawyers for two politicians that turned out to be a extremely little interest; but from the reference, there was in fact some at least minimal factual basis.   I see no connection besides that the two memes occurred the same year in the same country. Another ref.does see them connected on the basis that they are both absurd memes, but the actual article is bout the fictional events on two major TV shows. (btw, for those unfamiliar with me and the other editor, he does notify me about interesting afds at my request, but we agree only about half the time)  DGG ( talk ) 22:36, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete This now forgotten and misleading meme was a short term "flash in the pan" phenomenon which received some "slow news day" coverage in the Philippines where it originated. More recent reliable sources dismiss it in a few words as "grotesque" and "absurd", and lacking enduring significant coverage in reliable sources, it also lacks notability, and should therefore be deleted. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  06:31, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment - Originally, it was not an advertising stunt for Ace Hardware. This event created in Facebook by a 'non-Ace Hardware personnel and a person who have nothing to do in life', is a suntukan or brawl and it's impossible that the management will create some brawl event (because of mall security and so it is considered by news reports as a 'meme') so they denied it by a response. Here in the Philippines, especially people in social media and the news media people, events like this one is being often sensationalized. But, AH realized that they should take the 'publicity' so on the same date, they just build a boxing ring where people can take picture. The 'suntukan' did not really happen in sense of a real brawl because of mall security and reputation so it was called imaginary or fictitious. Now, the real confrontation of the-now-president-elect and outgoing senator about undeclared wealth was really nothing to do about 'suntukan'. It's just they (especially people in social media) only described the confrontation similarly to this event. -- Manila's PogingJuan 10:19, 7 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.