Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SuperKombat (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. We seem to be split pretty much straight down the middle here. Even discounting IP !votes and the indefinitely blocked user, the waters don't become much less muddy. Therefore, no consensus. Perhaps a re-nomination in a few weeks, without some people deliberately muddying the waters, might find a consensus one way or the other. HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   22:20, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

SuperKombat
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

This article was deleted by AfD three months ago and recently recreated. A CSD by another user was denied, but I thought it was worth discussing at AfD. The organization was just created this year and doesn't appear to be notable to me, but I don't have strong feelings about it.

I am also nominating the following related pages because they are either the events sponsored by the organization or, in the case of LocalKombat, an organization run by the same people promoting smaller events. Papaursa (talk) 17:39, 6 November 2011 (UTC)


 * SuperKombat World Grand Prix I
 * SuperKombat World Grand Prix II
 * SuperKombat World Grand Prix III
 * SuperKombat World Grand Prix IV
 * SuperKombat World Grand Prix Final
 * Local Kombat


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Papaursa (talk) 17:39, 6 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment User Schiavello (aka user Minowafan aka user WölffReik) twice blanked this discussion, removed it from martial arts AFD page, and removed the AfD tags from all of the articles. I asked him once not to do it and, after I reverted his edits, he promptly did it again.  I reported it to WP:ANI and they confirmed those were all the same account.  Minowafan was the person who recreated the previously deleted articles. Papaursa (talk) 00:33, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete all Except for some interviews with the promoter, I'm not seeing significant coverage. Certainly the events all lack significant coverage and fall under WP:ROUTINE.  They also fail WP:SPORTSEVENT.  With better sources the articles on the organizations might be salvageable. Astudent0 (talk) 19:31, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete the events, weak delete the organizations I think the strongest case for keeping can be made for the main article listed above. However, I couldn't find the significant independent coverage I think it needs to be kept (but I feel a bit uncomfortable about that).  The events lack significance and good sources, while LocalKombat seems like a minor organization without good sourcing. Mdtemp (talk) 18:27, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep all. So long as anything is verifiable, it is suitable for the website that purports to cover the sum total of human knowledge.  No real "need" to delete these that somehow benefits civilization.  --143.105.13.115 (talk) 20:19, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Existence does not imply notability. Papaursa (talk) 04:33, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, v/r - TP 02:33, 15 November 2011 (UTC)




 * Keep all - This is, if you had done your homework apart from your own personal knowledge, a reputable fighting competition in Europe. I live in New Zealand, and have a vague idea of this contest. If you don't actually think it exists, go google some torrents for its existence, it has televised coverage as other sports do and a huge fan base around the world. There is absolutely no reason to delete it. Wikipedia is meant to be an encyclopedia, of which users add to it. Not a biased, militarized online journal who as the ranks rise, different decisions on certain pages existence are made. Using google to search for this isn't going to get you very far, as most of it's websites are under .nl domains, which are dutch and aren't found easily unless using a dutch search engine. Basically you want to purge a page and all that is connected to it because your biased to the English language? The sport is Europe's answer to K-1 and is promoted throughout European countries under SuperKombat, instead of K-1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.234.229.34 (talk) 11:10, 20 November 2011 (UTC)‎
 * Weak Keep - Events don't seem all that notable, and almost all Ghits are unreliable, but some of the kickboxers appear to be notable. The only one that really needs to be deleted is LocalKombat. --Madison-chan (talk) 02:39, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Having notable kickboxers doesn't make an event notable. An event needs to be long-term significant (see WP:SPORTSEVENT). Papaursa (talk) 04:33, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete all - per Astudent0. Neutralitytalk 08:56, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep all - All of these pages are referenced and notable. These are not simply local shows featuring no-name fighters. They could be compared to kickboxing's versions of Strikeforce or DREAM. Even if the event pages are deleted, the promotions themselves should at least be kept. Local Kombat, although a poorly written article on here, held many big cards featuring world-class fighters spanning over seven years (2003-2010). It was a historically significant promotion in kickboxing, and SuperKombat is now the second biggest promotion in Europe. --WölffReik (talk) 21:09, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep all per WölffReik's outstanding and convincing rebuttal of the flawed nomination. --173.241.225.163 (talk) 22:27, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete all as WP:RECENTISM, WP:ROUTINE, and WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. I see no policy-based arguments above for keeping. The pages universally lack sources meeting the WP:IRS standard, most have been previously deleted and then recreated without consensus, and it's apparent to me socking or incorrect use of multiple accounts is taking place. User:Papaursa points out above AfD rules are being ignored or bypassed in order to promote a keep outcome. In view of this activity, it's possible WP:PROMOTION is being violated as well. Failing deletion, merge events into promotion organizations. BusterD (talk) 04:25, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep all Tonight, on an live aired gala by Eurosport Fight Club, Eduard Irimia, the promoter of SuperKombat from Romania, gathered all fighters of the postponed K-1 event to be held in China. 80% of fightcard are of created fighters' in Wikipedia. This organization is probably the most eminent one in Europe for 2011. If you are tend to delete these, what's next? Delete all Kickboxing champions' articles, as well? Why are some people out here so much obsessed to wipe kickboxing articles, since we've got tones of UNREFERENCED articles from varied disciplines? Why!? Umi1903 (talk) 21:31, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The fact that an organization created this year, one whose first event outside of Romanina is this weekend, is the preeminent kickboxing organization in Europe says a lot about the state of kickboxing right now. Feel free to put up those other unreferenced articles for AfD. Mdtemp (talk) 16:37, 18 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Question - Why wasn't this article deleted per WP:G4 based on this previous AfD?  Ol Yeller21 Talktome  23:11, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * An editor did put it up for AfD, but it was denied. Mdtemp (talk) 16:37, 18 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep all due to coverage in verifiable sources that establish sufficient Wikipedic notability. --131.123.123.124 (talk) 15:52, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Why are all the IPs from Ohio? Mdtemp (talk) 16:37, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Asks the "temp"? account created one month ago whose edits consist entirely, even right off the bat of just trying to delete MMA related articles... Dude, why are you responding to/harassing everyone who dissagrees with you anyway?  That's three posters in a row you reply to in this AfD.  Give it a rest.  --The Bachmann Editor Overdrive (talk) 17:17, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I see that you are a new editor. Please review Civility. Mdtemp is entirely entitled to make relevant comments. Neutralitytalk 07:08, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep all per User:Umi1903 with whom I agree the most. --The Bachmann Editor Overdrive (talk) 17:17, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
 * This user has 15 edits, and only two edits in the main namespace (both dealing with MMA topics). Neutralitytalk 07:08, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Speedy Delete SuperKombat (WP:G4) as it was not declined by a Admin. Mt  king  (edits)  21:17, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete All the rest lack of notability of this event. Mt  king  (edits)  21:17, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge per precedent. I recently joined the Mixed Martial Arts Wikiproject and I see there that a similar recent discussion suggested that these kind of events be joined with the main article of the franchise.  These events do get some international news coverage and so it is helpful for those interested in Mixed-martial arts history to have these articles organzied here, especially those who cannot translate them into English.  The subject is notable as being perhaps the premier MMA promotion in Romania and the articles are generally referenced.  Surely something is salvageable here.  No, it is not on par with the UFC, Strikeforce, or Bellator, but I am not convinced that it benefits Wikipedia to scrap it altogether.  I do wish these events had more women fighters involved, however, because I would like to see women's mma given more air time.  I tell you, sure, most of the men would crush them, but they are entertaining and skilled fighters, too, but anyway, sorry for getting off topic there.  But yeah, do something other than deleting because notability is confirmed because of coverage in multiple reliable sources, major promotion that has held multiple events in a historically important country (Romania) and participation of historically relevant fighters in the events.  Whether or not we should have articles on every MMA event is of course a different matter, but even that at worst we would redirect the ones that are merely results articles the main article for reader convenience, right?  --Temporary for Bonaparte (talk) 15:29, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I have struck two three !votes from the IPs above as they belong to other editors in this AfD. Per the WMF's Privacy Policy, I will not reveal who they belong to, but those editors should know better. –MuZemike 18:22, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.