Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Surroundings of Cologne Cathedral


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is clear the article should be improved instead of deleted. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  14:46, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Surroundings of Cologne Cathedral

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Google translated without human review, created by a now-indeffed user known for bad referencing. WP:MACHINETRANSLATION states that unedited machine translations are worse than nothing (bold in original).  dud  hhr  Contribs 18:35, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions.  dud  hhr  Contribs 18:35, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions.  dud  hhr  Contribs 18:35, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions.  dud  hhr  Contribs 18:35, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Comment Ouch, yes, it's a very clumsy translation. The question is whether it would be easier for a (human) translator to start with the foundations of this nasty machine translation in place, or start from scratch. There is a case for keeping it, if someone thinks they can use the existing pictures, sections and references, and just sort out the unpleasant text. I'm assuming we like the subject itself? Cologne and its cathedral are amongst the more important specimens in Europe. Elemimele (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete, per nom. See also: Talk:Surroundings_of_Cologne_Cathedral. Eric talk 22:16, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep: Thanks to the change of title and the copy editing which has already been undertaken, this is a useful article. Further improvements to the presentation should nevertheless be undertaken.--Ipigott (talk) 10:55, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment Both the current and the original title are examples of the clumsy translation. If this were kept as a standalone article, which I do not think is warranted, the title would want to be "Cologne Cathedral quarter" or something similar. Eric talk 12:41, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment: I've always admired your excellent command of English, Eric, but "quarter" covers a much larger area than that under discussion. As can be seen from this diagram, the "Umgebung" refers to the immediate surroundings. In related documents, the term "Umfeld" (environment or periphery) has been used. A suitable title might be "Cathedral periphery in Cologne".--Ipigott (talk) 09:44, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment My command of English may be limited in that it lacks a definition for quarter that imposes a lower limit on the size of the area the term may be used to designate. If the neighboring area described in the Umgebung article is truly smaller than the smallest geography anywhere on Earth to which the term quarter applies, I'm sure we could come up with a less awkward formulation than "surroundings of", which comes across as a literal dictionary translation chosen by someone not fluent in English. But this is all academic as far as I'm concerned, as I do not think the topic warrants a standalone article. Eric talk 12:36, 10 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep, work on phrasing and references, perhaps shorten. I was invited on my talk to take a quick look, which I did, and rephrased the lead. I have no time right now for the long look this would need, because three bios are waiting today, but I will return. It's good information to have, and I don't think it can be merged easily. I'm not sure about the title, and I don't think we have anything similar. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:21, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notability seems to be easily satisfied, and that's all we're here to determine at AfD. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:38, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep I cannot withdraw, as Eric has !voted to delete, but I have tagged the page for rewriting and some of the bad translatoin has been fixed.  dud  hhr  Contribs 17:32, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Notable. Grimes2 (talk) 06:33, 12 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.