Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swami Budhpuri Ji


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Despite the over abundance of SPA anon IPs here, an argument has clearly been made that there is copyvio/close paraphrasing issues as well as lack of verifiable reliable sources. I've given less to almost nil weight to the IPs (and two registered accounts) that appear to be NPAs. v/r - TP 19:24, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Swami Budhpuri Ji

 * – ( View AfD View log )

You can figure out the policy basis yourself: all I know is that there is nothing here to form a proper basis for an article. Note that an article on the same person, Swami Buddhapuri Ji, was previously speedied as a copyvio. This is not a blatant copyvio, but it is still not keepable in my opinion. Looie496 (talk) 03:15, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. Wikepedia doesn't seem to have 'Yeah, right, pull the other one' as a rationale for deletion, but it probably should. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:22, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete: Patent spam. Nothing worth saving. Sister article Siddhamrit Surya Kriya Yoga was already speedy deleted as spam. The present article was created the same day it had been deleted under a slight different spelling. The primary authors are spam-only accounts with no useful edits in two years. All of their edits have been to this article and the sister article, or have been links to them. Furthermore, they've apparently created a swarm of puppets to oppose this AfD.


 * Only one reliable source is provided "The search for truth", and it supports only a minor biographical detail. All of the other sources are self-published promotion, or are local community-level service anouncements pertaining to lectures, yoga-camps and similar events, and thus probably derive primaruily from promotional material provided by the proponents of the subject of the article. The "academic" sources used are deceptively disguised to hide the fact that they are prefaces to books self-published by the subject of the article. They cannot be considered independent and impartial, and in fact seem promotional as well. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 03:28, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - Kill it with fire. Unscrupulous spam. I almost deleted the claim that he hasn't eaten food since 2004, but I don't want to obscure how craptastic the article is. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 04:55, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Great, the claim of going without food is gone, now we're told that he once went without sleep for three years. Anyone want to start a pool on what'll be next? --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 06:42, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spirituality-related deletion discussions.  —Tom Morris (talk) 05:35, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions.  —Tom Morris (talk) 05:35, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow! I just read that article. I'm not sure it's salvageable. Delete, unless someone can go in and separate and organize the flecks of verifiable content from the horde of nonsense. Like I said, I don't think it's going to happen, but I'll keep an open mind, so I guess it's only a Weak Delete. VanIsaacWS 05:46, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * 'Nuke it from orbit. No point in me wasting more words trying to explain the problem; the people above have said it as well as I could. bobrayner (talk) 07:36, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - The article has good references.66.199.140.95 (talk) 10:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC) — 66.199.140.95 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Speedy delete - WP:CSD G11. 86.178.193.2 (talk) 11:07, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - Removed some unverified claims. Please address specific text in the article which seems inappropriate, instead of merely recommending for deletion. 72.14.181.182 (talk) 12:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC) — 72.14.181.182 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete. This article provides plenty of sources which never mention the name of this person. India is a land of Sadhus and anyone wearing saffron can become one. No notable or verifiable sources and the material is not written from a neutral point of view. Vivekananda De  --tAlK 12:38, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Please mention which references are irrelevant.Ssky (talk) 13:07, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note 1,2,3,49,21,24,25,26 clearly mentions Swami Budhpuri Ji name and note many of them clearly states that he is head of the Shabad Surat Sangam Ashram as well as Dera Harisar at Kila raipur and also the inventor of Siddhamrit surya kriya yog. Please refer to the particular text which doesn't seems to be neutral and I'll change it.Ssky (talk) 13:21, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep The Tribune is reliable source as is the Hindustan Times, the article has Garbage claims in it but the topic is notable and has multiple WP:RS. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 13:51, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep- I have followed this debate. Curiously, I realize much of the text and so termed "nonsense" must have been deleted for I could fine none. This certainly does not appear as a blatant copyvio, and is therefore certainly not unkeepable. And it is really good that Wikipedia does not have a "pull the other one down" rationale, for even though the sister articles might have been deleted, every article ought to be tested on its own content. And on its own grounds it stands well. The article only states plain facts, which I found verifiable by the references provided (I checked all of them, except for no. 23, there is an explicit mention of the subject). Further, there are links to published books of the subject also given. The article cannot be deleted on grounds of "unverifiable references" - that would be ill-justified. As for the fact of the subject staying without food (which anyways seems to have been deleted by now), there can be no longer a dispute over the possibility of such an occurrence (see for example, the Discovery Channel's documentary and the BBC's coverage of the Buddha Boy). This article is a keep; not a clarion-call, tiger roar "keep", but a resilient "keep", nonetheless.Svechu (talk) 14:16, 15 September 2011 (UTC) — Svechu (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Books describes itself as Self Publishing Website. There is still substantial references from News papers and the such. The Resident Anthropologist (talk)•(contribs) 14:26, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * If you check out the newspaper sources, you'll find that only one of them is an articles in any real sense. The rest are just promotional community-level announcements of lectures, yoga camps and similar events. The information almost certainly derives from the promoters of the movement themselves, and not from any "investigative reporting", except for the "In search of truth" article. As for the non-self published sources (Singh and Jhansi), both of them mention the Swami only in the preface, which may or may not have been written by the authors themselves. All but three of the sources are self-published or promotional, and of the three, two are insignificant. This leaves the "In Search of Truth" article as the only reliable source, and that's used to source a single rather trivial biographic event. That's not even enough to establish the notability of the subject. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 14:59, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The points made above are quite pertinent. However, attention is drawn to the fact that the books claimed published by the subject are not from the self-publishing house (http://www.unicornbooks.com but from http://www.unicornbooks.in/books/author/swami-buddh-puri-ji/index.html, which is not a self-publishing house. The website lists four books published under the subject's name.Svechu (talk) 20:53, 15 September 2011 (UTC)


 * What about the article on 'The power of the sun' by The New Indian Express, 23-Jan-2009. Does the same article should also be available in their online version? I mean it is was published in 2009. Also I've read the book Chingar Ton Brahma Jot and preface is written by Dr. Jatinderpal Singh and Dr. Rekha Jhansi. I'll add ISBN numbers shortly. besides that there are books on Swami written by others like Harkanwal Korpal: The Haloed Trinity and Dr. Laxman Das Saddi : Biography of Swami Dayal Puri. I'll try adding there isbn # too.Bcsadhak (talk) 15:51, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Most of the article seems to have been taken from this webpage; the same website was reportedly the source of the previous incarnation of this article. Random phrases (eg "the far-flung caves of the Himalayas") are in this article and on that webpage. Thus the article seems to be made up of copyvios from a problematic self-advertising source. Mathsci (talk) 14:47, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's a Copyvio?! Why are we bothering to debate, then? 86.178.193.2 (talk) 15:21, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Here is a comparison with a historic version from 2009, for what its worth. It does seem to be transcribed with some paraphrasing and some copypasting from that page. Mathsci (talk) 15:51, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Doesn't look like a copied article. Some information was similar to the information on website which has been removed since it wasn't properly referenced either.Bcsadhak (talk) 15:43, 15 September 2011 (UTC) — Bcsadhak (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete as per above, and per most keeps that there are at the very least meatpuppets here. The one legit keep is using 1 source, not enough.--Cerejota (talk) 16:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, there are two bony puppets saying keep - ssky, and the Resident Anthropologist. VanIsaacWScontribs 04:24, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep Found no strong and valid reason to remove this article. References are posted by correspondents of reliable newspaper which don't just publish any news or announcements.66.49.129.203 (talk) 16:44, 15 September 2011 (UTC) — 66.49.129.203 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 00:40, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The main problem is that the name is itself wrongly spelt many times in the sources. Once it is Budhpuri, another Buddh Puri, another Budh Puri(Puri now becomes last name). So, it is difficult to relate to all the persons
 * These things always happen in non english speaking countries. Especially in India where Hindi is the main language, so you can't blame news paper for such discrepancy. This isn't the first time, it has happened. For ex, try searching ramkrishna paramhans, ram krishna paramhansa and you'll see some sites and even institutions with names which has different ways of writing it. 117.205.54.15 (talk) 05:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

1) No mention of the person:-The Tribune - January 4, 2009, In search of truth http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090104/spectrum/main3.htm 2)The page is not found-->The Tribune : Ludhiana March 25, 2006, Lecture on ‘Surya Kriya Yoga’ http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070326/ldh2.htm#7 3)The person mentioned here is "Swami Suryendu Puri" and not the person in the article. -->Hindustan Times (24-April-2006) Good health at no cost via Siddhamrit yoga. http://www.shabadsuratsangam.org/wp-content/gallery/SSS-2006/scan0102%20%5B1280x768%5D.jpg --> Free Press, Indore (27-April-2006) Humans can utilize solar energy like plants http://www.shabadsuratsangam.org/wp-content/gallery/SSS-2006/scan0091%20%5B1280x768%5D.jpg 4)This book's author is the person himself.So, how can anyone even get a neutral point of view from a person describing himself.Surya Kriya The Pathway to Immortality - Unicorn Books ISBN: 9788178062419 - Surya Kriya, The Pathway to Immortality  Vivekananda De  --tAlK 05:06, 16 September 2011 (UTC) Should probably be noted: these two references Dr. Jatinderpal Singh - School of Punjabi Studies - Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar : Chingar Ton Brahma Jot(ISBN: 978-81-907146-9-3), preface page 5 and Dr. Rekha Jhansi - Department of Philosophy - Punjab University, Chandigarh : Chingar Ton Brahma Jot(ISBN: 978-81-907146-9-3), preface page 6 Are highly misleading ways of citing the preface to a book written by the subject of the article. As these were apparently the biggest arguments for notability, that's a major problem. Of course, it's a WP:Close paraphrase copyvio, so I doubt it matters much on the whole. 86.178.193.2 (talk) 14:19, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Your point doesn't make any sense. Since different references are used for different text in the article. 1,2,3,49,21,24,25,26 clearly mentions Swami Budhpuri Ji name and note many of them clearly states that he is head of the Shabad Surat Sangam Ashram as well as Dera Harisar at Kila raipur and also the inventor of Siddhamrit surya kriya yoga. Now if you read the references that you mentioned, they clearly mention about Siddhamrit surya kriya yoga. The references mentioned above are all from well known publishers and newspapers, even if the books written by him are not taken into account. Then there are references by Dr. Jatinderpal Singh and Dr. Rekha Jhansi of Guru nanak dev university and Punjab university respectively. Harkanwal Korpal also wrote a book which has his a chapter dedicated on him.  117.205.54.15 (talk) 05:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC) — 117.205.54.15 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Please could this SPA distinguish themselves from who has recently edited the article. blanking an apparently sourced section and removing tags? Mathsci (talk) 07:27, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This is a biography of a particular person.But, the sources only mention him as "head of the" some institution.Most of the sources are talking about the deeds of some other person namely "Swami Suryendu Puri". Thus this becomes the biography of "Swami Suryendu Puri". As far I can understand a person's biography should contain sources citing his work not of any other person. Yes, work could be done in a team. In that case then there could be some more persons. But, check the two articles which I had cited in my previous comment at No.-3. Both these articles never cite the name of the "Swami Budhpuri Ji".Moreover the "The Tribune" source does not exist on the net -->http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070326/ldh2.htm#7 (Source Reference as:-The Tribune : Ludhiana March 25, 2006, Lecture on ‘Surya Kriya Yoga’).The respectable newspapers can also have articles sponsored by the advertisers.(But beware I am only saying this is a possibility in this case).It has been clearly accepted that the book(given as a source) has been written by the person himself and so the question of neutrality becomes a big issue.Ramkrishna Paramhansa is a household name and thus I request don't compare.  Vivekananda De  --tAlK  12:16, 16 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete. I'm ignoring the close-paraphrase/copyvio problem for now as this AfD should be able to result in G4s! The Tribune ref is a "local community activity" review, the HT source barely mentions him, the Indian Express one is the only one that can actually be used as a source, but even that doesn't provide anything significant. On the whole, doesn't pass WP:BIO, and I haven't been able to find any sources either. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  21:41, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.