Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swami Shankar Purushottam Tirtha


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Swami Shankar Purushottam Tirtha

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Non notable religious figure. Although there is no apparent assertion of notability, I think there is a good chance this person IS notable, and so would rather bring it here just to be on the safe side. J Milburn 02:44, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete These swamis are really dime a dozen, and I fail to see much notability for this guy or his books Corpx 05:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete doesn't appear to be notable, and if he is, he deserves a better article than this. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  11:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep This Swami is actually quite notable in the sense that in the early 1900's he authored the book Yoga Vani. Much of the "canon" of the now famous Siddha Yoga new religious movement was appropriated from this book and author. Very few people are aware of this. This Swami is also important to the Siddhayoga article. I'd say give it a chance to develop. -Vritti 16:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Have you any sources for that? J Milburn 17:03, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Yes, the founder of Siddha Yoga was Muktananda. You can find reference to the importance of Yoga Vani authored by Swami Shankar Purushottam Tirtha in Muktananda's autobiography Play of Consciousness, and other places if more sources are required. Basically, Swami Shankar Purushottam Tirtha represents an established earlier Siddhayoga lineage in contrast to the more recent Siddha Yoga lineage. The teaching concepts and name are virtually identical. It appears that the Tirtha lineage had always had a laid back approach to public relations and self promotion. -Vritti 17:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: The article could do with some tweaks. The prose and references seem good, but the lists and lead seem a little poor. I'd do it myself, but I am not at all familiar with the subject matter. Do you think you could clean it up a little? J Milburn 18:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'll go along with Vritti here. This article needs cleanup and references from independent sources, but I think it's premature to delete it. If we go a couple months and we're still without reliable sources, then I'll reconsider it. —C.Fred (talk) 19:23, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. This article is an encylopedic disaster!  The part that says "took mahasamadhi" in 1958 gets my prize for most POV way of saying "he died" in the history of Wikipedia.  But he is notable and can be referenced in reliable sources.  Time to break out the "multiple issues" template.....--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 22:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I am the originator of this content; new to Wiki, and apologize for my lack of knowledge of style - but I am reading your comments and help pages, and hopefully addressing your valid issues. I've studied with some Hindu ashrams since early 1970s, and discovered Siddhayogashram in 1988, where I first read Yoga Vani. While I became aware of the Muktananda and Vishnu Tirth groups, only later did I learn of their affiliation with this swami. Vishnu Tirth's group under Shivom Tirtha do recognize Purushottam Tirtha's place and influence in their branch. So I felt it important to properly recognize him his in siddhayoga history.

I wanted to be careful to avoid the negativity and legal arguments of Muktananda's group, so
 * I omitted his writings where he credits Yoga Vani as an authentic book (also it was read to me over the phone by someone; the new editions have omitted these references to Yoga Vani), but if someone has access to original editions and can send me the quotes and citation, I will add it to the site.
 * Also a person who trained as a teacher under Muktananda sent me xeroxed copies of their teacher training book on siddayoga - it was a different translation, but the same book.
 * Purushottam Tirtha's successor, Swami Narayan Tirtha, whom I met in 1988, stated that as a young man, Muktananda did come to the Siddhayogashram and purchase Yoga Vani.
 * there are many other siddha groups, but, as reported in Hinduism Today in the 1990's many were sued by SYDA for using the siddhayoga name, and so I found it difficult to trace to add to the page to show a wider group of siddha groups.

Yet, between hearsay, xeroxed copies, and legal animosities from Muktananda's group, I chose to avoid such discussion. I share it here only to convey the evidence, some of it very strong, of Muktananda being influenced by the book Yoga Vani; and to note the importance of the author/guru in the siddhayoga sect. If Muktananda and his successor, Chidvilasananda, merit wiki pages, it seems needful to have a page for a person who influenced their sect.

Again, my skills are not yet up to par for Wiki styles, but I am open to your continued advice. Hoping this explanation will provide evidence for the notability of this figure. Thank you for your efforts reviewing this page. Babaji108 01:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment. As you can see, a new editor has started the page and hopes to bring it up to Wikipedia standards. He failed to register a Keep vote, but I think you get the idea. I'll try to help him get there as I am aware of the valid ideas he is trying to communicate and have sources to support his views. It is a very interesting slice of history. I hope other editors can take a wait and see approach and allow the page to survive this early stage. -Vritti 02:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep. Yes I register a keep vote. There is ample proof that this swami has influenced others whom Wiki deems notable, so with your stylistic and citation help, I'll get this page up to your technical standards. --Babaji108 02:52, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep I believe this passes WP:BIO. I think it needs cleanup to meet WP:NPOV, WP:RS and WP:ATT.TheRingess (talk) 03:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep - meets WP:BIO. The article has been improved a bit. Also, I can vouch for Babaji108's willingness to accept constructive criticism and put forth the effort to further improve the articles he created. He plays well with others. --Evb-wiki 03:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep Seems notable to me, and there are sources.  I think nominating for AfD 8 minutes after the article was created was maybe not such a good idea.  In cases like that it may be best to add the page to your watchlist, and if there is no improvement after a day or so, then nominate for AfD, 8 minutes after creation is too short though, and may deter new users.  Jackaranga 11:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I've added a full section on this person's teachings to fill out the page and provide more insight into his ideas. I've got a call in to India to see if they have any books, awards, etc. to additional reliable recognition. Any other suggestions you folks have will be most appreciated. Im quite grateful for all the help you've all given me in the last few days to make this site be more worthwhile. --Babaji108 00:25, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.