Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sydney Rae White


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Insufficient evidence of notability arising from this discussion Fritzpoll (talk) 13:55, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Sydney Rae White

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Unnotable actress; fails WP:BIO and WP:ENTERTAINER; only sources are from her own CDs and by article creator's own admission, her IMDB profile which was written by her manager and her own website. Was CSDed and declined; was PRODed by User:Orangemike on the 14th with note of: "Unsourced article about non-notable actress who has attracted (apparently) zero attention" and removed by SPA IP User:84.65.38.7 with note of "Expanded article and added intial references - more to follow soon (I hope!))" though no actual references were added. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 13:54, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and actresses-related deletion discussions. — --  Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 13:57, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. — --  Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 13:57, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Her best claim seems to be her role as Emma in the UK version of "As the Bell Rings," but I can't find any reliable sources discussing her in that part, either.  If the information in the article can't be verified by reliable sources, then there's nothing to say about her on Wikipedia. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:59, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete no sources. Darrenhusted (talk) 14:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That is only a reason if such sources cannot be found with a reasonable search. - Mgm|(talk) 19:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - just another child star in the local iteration of a minor Disney franchise, and not even reliably sourced for that. Seems to be a bit of an ad for the school she attended, too (three mentions, two wiki-linked, in one short article). -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  14:18, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep She has appeared in three major West End productions and has had a lead role on a TV series. 209.247.22.164 (talk) 14:55, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong keep Contrary to the claims made above, two sources WERE provided in the most recent positive edit, although they need to be correctly referenced (Not sure at the moment how you reference information which comes from documentation included with CDs - And please note that the two CDs mentioned are not HER OWN, as incorrectly stated above, but rather the OCR of an Andrew Lloyd Webber show and one produced by the London Philharmonic, and so are not specifically hers and the associated notes in the packaging would not be written with any specific bias towards her). Has also had lead roles in major West End musicals and other stage and TV productions, which are facts of note. Additionally, the most recent positive editor has stated that they are attempting to track down further supporting references to add to the article. To that effect, this article should be retained in order to allow them to find those references. Emma white20 (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Question: Could someone do a LexisNexis search? I would be very surprised if 2 lead roles (the rock opera and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang) in London West End musicals didn't receive some paper coverage. - Mgm|(talk) 19:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * An excellent point - I sometimes think that a lot of users and editors here forget that other sources apart from online ones exist and are allowed as references here on Wikipedia! Of course, such searches are more time-consuming than the lazy way of just typing keywords into Google and seeing what comes out, because you have to go out of your house to something called a "library" and look in strange objects called "books"... And if she's in a lead role, there's a good chance of her being mentioned by name in some of the reviews, isn't there? Emma white20 (talk) 20:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So, after you made this post insulting people for not doing this kind of search, I assume that you actually did the search yourself. Did you find any useful references when you did it? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 20:48, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you need to learn the difference between insults and sarcasm... And, as a matter of fact, I've just done another Google search (can't do a library search right now, as I'm in the UK and they're all shut as it's the middle of the night here!). If you search for "Sydney Rae White" and go past the first couple of pages, you'll find several probably usable references(for example, here) to her being one of the main cast in the very latest 2009 production of 'Quadrophenia' - I guess that helps establish a bit more notability for her, doesn't it??... Emma white20 (talk) 21:24, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That article mentions her, but it isn't really about her, and doesn't say anything other than that she'll be appearing in that play. You're presenting the appearance of being a member of her family; can you recall anyone writing a newspaper or magazine article about her, or a book?  Have there been reporters around the house interviewing her who might have written about her in more detail? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:32, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How the hell would I know that? - I've got no personal or professional connection to her at all, despite what you may think! All I know about her is what I can find online or from other published sources. Think about it for a second - If I was connected with her, don't you think I'd have a list or collection of articles about her, which I'd be quoting from and using to improve the article??? Or do you think that everyone who supports the career of a lesser-known artist or performer must automatically be related to them, because that's the impression I get from some of the comments which have been made towards me?? (It's true that I AM distantly related to a currently-working British stage and TV actor, but it isn't her, and I haven't contributed to any Wikipedia article about them - if they even have one, as I've never checked to see - so there's no conflict of interest or hidden agenda here...) As for the link I included, that's just meant as an example to show that, despite what some may contend, information can be found online to confirm at least some of the details about her career, and on websites which may qualify as reliable sources under Wikipedia guidelines - which gives a lie to those above claiming otherwise... And that link shows that there's scope for further research NOW, which may help to improve the article to the point where notability is established beyond doubt and it reaches the standards required. I haven't examined all of the links I found, as I don't have time right now, but it shows that there's information out there on places other than her official site or IMDb which needs to be carefully examined and followed up before any decision is taken on whether this article is deleted. Emma white20 (talk) 01:13, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not only can, but done. Search for her name, past ten years and searching all available resources: "No Documents Found". Searched for "Sydney White" as well, but all results were for Sydney White (quite a few if anyone happens to be working on that article) Screen shot available if someone disbelieves it. -- Collectonian  (talk · contribs) 20:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - Meets criteria for WP:CREATIVE. Actress has had significant roles in notable film, TV and stage productions. Untick (talk) 22:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong keep - She's had featured lead roles in various productions in major West End (London, UK) theatres. She's also appeared in a featured role on the original cast recording of an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical and in other productions. Going by what's written at WP:Entertainer ("Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television, stage performances, or other productions"), the fact that she's had significant roles in notable productions does establish notability for her too, and so justifies this article being retained. 84.65.38.7 (talk) 00:15, 21 April 2009 (UTC) — 84.65.38.7 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Notice the top of that page Yes, that's a subcategory of WP:BIO. But the section at the top, 'basic criteria,' requires that those achievements be verifiable by coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  Are you aware of any? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 00:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.