Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Syed Mohammad Waris Hasan Naqvi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 10:54, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Syed Mohammad Waris Hasan Naqvi

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An old obit posing as an article, I discovered this tramping through very old NPOV tagged articles. I don't see the sources here as meeting WP:BASIC, and I haven't found much more -- sadly lacking Arabic, I am unlikely to find the best available sources. I was tempted to redirect to Madrasatul Waizeen, and that should be considered before deletion is, but in case someone can suggest a better way to work with this content, I'm here. j⚛e deckertalk 05:56, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:20, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:20, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:20, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. No evidence of notability. Wikipedia is not for obits. Xxanthippe (talk) 22:32, 2 July 2014 (UTC).
 * Delete. Fails WP: NOTABILITY. --Jersey92 (talk) 01:27, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. Waris Hasan comes from notable family of Shia Muslim clerics and he himslef was prinicpal of Madrasatul Waizeen an important Shia seminary in North Indian Shia centre of Lucknow. He had spent many years in Iraq seminaries and lived in UK and obtained Doctrate in Islamic studies (PhD Doctor of Philosophy from University of Edinburgh) there. He has also authored many articles, books, etc. He is notable in Shia circle of North India. Also I'm surprised to see delete reccomendations from users who are remotely connected to any of topics associated to Waris Hasan, and they themselves have created unuseful articles which have been deleted. IMHO, people who are connected or associated with the topic should look into merit of article. Following are some links of naotability I was able to collect recently:
 * Edinburgh Research Archive
 * Ali ibn Abi Talib - Department of Near Eastern ..., pg 12
 * Kitab Al-qabasat: The Book of Blazing Brands, pg 210
 * The Light - Volumes 14-15 - Page 36
 * Edited Works & Collections on the Middle East: Tables of Contents and Author Index, Issue 2
 * Shiʻism doctrines, thought, and spirituality
 * Alserat Vol VI, Nos. 3 and 4 November 1980
 * American Intelligence Journal Vol 30 No 1, pg 86
 * Other links
 * At last even above links fail to establish notability of Waris Hasan, then I'll suggest "redirect to Madrasatul Waizeen" with some content moved there.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 08:30, 3 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, j⚛e deckertalk 15:52, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

 
 * Comment. Joe! I have listed so many RS stating notability of the subject. Do we still need discussion? or are you looking forward for more support for deletion? I fail to understand.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 08:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment from relister: Sayed, my role in this affair it largely to assess what the community (yourself included) says. Relisting gives a chance for the community to state its views on the sources you provide.  When pressed, after a couple relists, it is sometimes necessary for a closer to invoke their own best judgment, particularly with respect to biographies, but in most cases we wait, whenever possible, for a WP:CONSENSUS to become obvious.  --j⚛e deckertalk 19:08, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Davewild (talk) 07:47, 18 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. Notable, may be a rewrite is required with inclusion of links provide by User:Faizhaider as above.--121.244.54.32 (talk) 15:51, 19 July 2014 (UTC) — 121.244.54.32 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep. S. M. Waris Hasan was a prominent member of Shia Clergy and a profilic writer in field of Islamic studies and specialist on Nahj al-Balagha, he worked/co-authored with prominent people/authors like Allamah Tabatabai, Seyyed Hossein Nasr and Hamid Dabashi on books like Shi'ite Islam, an important text on the history and thought of Shi'a Islam (Chapter 4 The Shi'i Interpretation of Hadith Literature ,,,,,,,,,).--180.215.85.240 (talk) 00:25, 20 July 2014 (UTC) — 180.215.85.240 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment - Is there any means of putting this discussion on hold and allow Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider et al to add the links and, hopefully, provide a little more detail regarding the content of Dr. Hasan's scholarship?--Rpclod (talk) 01:20, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
 * AfD debates are open for a minimum of a week. This one has been open for nearly three. Xxanthippe (talk) 11:40, 20 July 2014 (UTC).
 * I'll be more than intrested to reform the article but right now I don't have much time due to my personal life's busy schedule ; especially due to month of Ramadhan & subsequent travel plans I'll be tied up for next 3 weeks. Anyone else if wishes is welcome to reform the article till I have time for same, I have already put the links on article's talk page too. I hope that users/editors will agree that although article may be poorly written/structured/sourced but the subject is WP:Notable.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 20:21, 20 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment. The sources given above are negligible and almost all primary. Multiple independent reliable sources are needed for notability. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:02, 21 July 2014 (UTC).
 * Reply. Apart from 'Edinburgh' (which may be used for Waris Hasan's academic qualification and then as such valid), most other links are publication of repute who are using Waris Hasan's work as reference, hence, they are secondry/tertiary sources which are using his work for reference, hence, establishing reputation of Waris Hasan's work and in turn proving acceptability of Waris Hasan as important persomn in academic circles. As pointed above by an IP, Waris Hasan is one of the contributors of Shi'ite Islam, an important text on the history and thought of Shi'a Islam (he is co-author of Chapter 4 The Shi'i Interpretation of Hadith Literature), if a book is accepted as important in academic circle then by default prooves caliber and status of author(s)/contributor(s). Waris Hasan was most of time active in Iraq where he spent his time with likes of Allamah Tabatabai and later part of his life wast spent in India (in interim he was in UK at Edinburgh) so it is likely that he may not have much coverage in western media but that doesn't reduces his notablity, and he was principal of two major instututions in Lucknow viz. Madarsatul Waizeen (Shia Islamic Seminary, one of the oldest and most important in India) and Shia College (around hundred years old Post Graduate Degree College providing Secular Education including B.Sc, M.Sc, B.A, M.A, B.B.A, M.B.A, B.C.A, M.C.A, etc) that too is proof of his academic brillaince and acceptability in academic circles (both religious & Secular) of Lucknow. IMHO, over one dozen links are not negligible and they conform well to WP:RS and establish importance of Waris Hasan, at least as an writer of Shia Islamic topics.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 17:32, 21 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. This is essentially minimaly sourced and I am not immediately finding much on the topic in English that would count to GNG, but there does seem to be a web footprint for the name that indicates (to me at least) that sources are out there if one knew where to look, and in what language. I believe WP is better off with this article than without it and that deletion would not serve any positive benefit. Keep under WP:IAR.-116.202.132.83 (talk) 18:21, 21 July 2014 (UTC) — 116.202.132.83 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment. I have done some re-structuring at the article. I'll try to do more if time permits, meanwhile other editors are welcome to do same.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 08:22, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.