Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/T. F. Chen


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Other than Ted Griffin, who seems to have a proprietary interest in the article, clear consensus the subject does not meet our standards of sourcing for biographies. Not that it really matters to this AfD, but looking at the subjects Ted Griffin has chosen to write about, I have to wonder if he's been hired by the Chen family to work on articles about Chen family members. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:50, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

T. F. Chen

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

This page has serious issues for over 10 years. The information is mostly promotional and either unsourced or sourced by dead links which are not reliable sources and mostly self published. &#124; MK17b &#124;  (talk)  04:31, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2020 August 11.  —cyberbot I   Talk to my owner :Online 04:49, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Taiwan-related deletion discussions. Dps04 (talk) 09:25, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Dps04 (talk) 09:26, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Salvio 09:32, 19 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep: There is significant coverage from Taiwan, USA, and other sources.Ted Griffin (talk) 23:15, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete mostly self-published sources. The New World Art Center article is potentially good, but the location of the article is somewhat suspect, perhaps a paid critique. Curiocurio (talk) 23:24, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Finished cleaning up some of the article, fixing sources and dead links. I'm going to double check the self-published sources and remove them if need be. But the artist does appear significant and merits an individual page. Will report back when finished.Ted Griffin (talk) 23:28, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, the problematic self-published references have been removed. Otherwise, the remaining references are quite good and independent. Moreover, this artist already has significant coverage in French and Chinese. I stand by my original vote to Keep.Ted Griffin (talk) 23:46, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * How are the remaining references good? References 1 and 7 are to Qart, an archived dead page which is just an ecommerce site and def. not reliable. 2 is self published. References 3, 9 and 10 are to 123soho.com which is a (defunct?) advertising agency - again not a RS. Reference 8 is again a dead link. &#124; MK17b &#124;  (talk)  05:15, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Mk17b, I fixed reference 8 by putting the archive link. As for the other sources: Ted Griffin (talk) 22:33, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Qart: updated the link to a live page . Based on, there is nothing saying that an ecommerce site is by def nonreliable, especially since the page seems to provide factual information.
 * 123soho: the source is written by another notable artist Thomas McEvilley, further boosting the subject's notability
 * According to, self published sources are acceptable so long as their coverage is limited to the subject and they are not used exclusively for the article. The source satisfies these criterion so it is acceptable.
 * Quoting from RS: “Never use self-published sources as independent sources about living people”.
 * Regarding ecommerce: “inline citations may be allowed to e-commerce pages such as that of a book on a bookseller's page or an album on its streaming-music page, in order to verify such things as titles and running times.”
 * Qart is being used as a source about the artist, not the existence of a title or the like. &#124; MK17b &#124;  (talk)  19:32, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment: Thus, he won significant awards and has numerous books written on him, clearly demonstrating notability. Moreover, multiple significant artists that already have their own wiki pages including Jan Hulsker and Thomas McEvilley have commended his work. These accomplishments merit a Strong Keep. Ted Griffin (talk) 23:00, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * He also has numerous books written about him, constituting significant, independent, reliable coverage.,  Just browsing  gives many books covering his art.
 * He also satisfies WP:ANYBIO, winning an award from the United Nations, the “Global Tolerance Award,” which absolutely makes him notable and significant.
 * His award was from "Friends of the United Nations", not the UN. Have you heard of that organization before? &#124; MK17b &#124;  (talk)  19:28, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 15:29, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete the article sources and those found in a search do not constitute independent critical recognition of his work. Most of what I saw in sources appears to be a self-generated effort, including the peace and culutral centre. I removed the user-generated qart.com source, as well as abebooks.com. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 14:27, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I also removed the claims that he is one of the 20 most influential artists in the world (comical!), sourced to a local business organization, and that his work is like Van Gogh, sourced to his own web site. We do not need such information, which is plainly bullshit.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 14:34, 7 September 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.