Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/THE GARAGE


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No Consensus, defaulting to Keep. The quality of the references supporting the article is a subjective judgement, and all parties involved in the discussion appear to have used reasonable discretion in arriving at their (disparate) viewpoints. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 14:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

THE GARAGE

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

The main concern is the notability of this place. The original author has admitted a potential conflict of interest (see talk page), and referenced the article well. However, the references seem to all be local newspapers or from the youth centre itself, which doesn't qualify it as having reliable references according to Wikipedia's standards. Montchav (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Delete The "window dressing" on this article seems to indicate some importance but, if you check the sources, you will find it non notable. --Stormbay (talk) 22:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - The citations supplied do appear to support notability at least technically by supplying enough coverage under third party sources, with the combination of some of the more detailed coverage by citypages and this week online. The articles I am looking are the Scholtes and Gessner articles. The various Pioneer Press and Star Tribune may assert this, but without links it is tough to tell, and the good faith is helping it. I would recommend formatting those more consistently using citation templates and magnus' citation tool. I am concerned by the lack of edits by persons who aren't involved in the organization (See article history). When conflict of interest (COI) is involved I tend to ask, if this article wasn't created by someone involved in the organization would someone write it? I'm not entirely convinced that anyone would. Also as the one who tagged it for multiple issues I should explain. Most of the issues probably stem from the COI. Stating "THE GARAGE" over and over again is quite grating to read. I would recommend using terms like "the center", "the venue", or just not using all caps in every situation as the citypages articles do. Also this article reads as overly positive. It emphasizes bands which appeared at the venue, all of which are either redlinks or of questionable notability. I'm not sure how much more detail to go into this, but I suspected there was a COI from reading the article, before I saw that the initial author's comments on the talk page.- Optigan13 (talk) 06:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 11:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep This article has some problems, but I don't think lack of notability is one of them. The Saint Paul Pioneer Press and the City Pages are fine references.--Appraiser (talk) 16:11, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Well of course you know I want to keep it as the original author. I would suggest notability should be the lesser judge as our highest local paper the Pioneer Press and Strib are on par with most national papers and have cited our center in the past as linked in the article. This article was written a really long time ago before I became part of WP, I just haven't updated it, I guess I should indeed. Some of the current edits though reflect other participants of the center, which I'm not sure is a COI because it would be stating anyone who attended say the Republican National Convention shouldn't be allowed to edit the article. Btw for some refs: First Avenue The Garage (night club). I could pare down the article to bare bones of what I know now is necessary and redo the citations. .:DavuMaya:. 12:38, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: What was going on with prod in the edit history? A user from Australia had removed AfD and then AfD was returned with a warning stamp not to remove the AfD but it was not established in the first place, please check.


 * 1) (cur) (last)  22:06, November 21, 2007 Montchav (Talk | contribs) (8,019 bytes) (AFD) (undo)
 * 2) (cur) (last) 07:33, November 15, 2007 Maelgwn (Talk | contribs) (7,810 bytes) (this article clearly does not have all these problems and has numerous references to assert its notability) (undo)
 * 3) (cur) (last) 02:26, November 13, 2007 Stormbay (Talk | contribs) (8,515 bytes) (prod2) (undo)
 * 4) (cur) (last) 15:15, November 12, 2007 Montchav (Talk | contribs) (8,454 bytes) (prod) (undo)
 * 5) (cur) (last) 23:29, November 3, 2007 Optigan13 (Talk | contribs) (8,151 bytes) (Tagged for multiple problems) (undo)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davumaya (talk • contribs) 13:13, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The first notice was a PROD notice, which can just be removed if you do not support the deletion. Then it was brought here to Articles for Deletion, a more formal process where the topic is discussed and consensus is reached over whether it should be deleted or kept. :: maelgwn - talk 00:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak delete There is a lot of history up to 2003, but little about subsequent years. No doubt, this music venue is locally notable, but is it notable enough to warrant inclusion in a worldwide encyclopaedia.  We regularly delete churches as NN, even though they may play an important role locally, so why should we keep a music venue that is merely locally notable?  If kept, the article should be renamed "The Garage, Burnsville" or "The Garage (music venue)".  Most towns have a night club, so why is that in Burnsville more notable than all the rest?  Peterkingiron (talk) 23:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - There appears to be enough coverage by reliable secondary sources on this venue. --Oakshade (talk) 05:52, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.