Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Table game


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Convert to disambiguation page. Per the consensus the article will be turned into a disambiguation page Less Unless (talk) 14:08, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Table game

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This is a mess. It was created as a unnecessary split from casino game, where the section on table games became a tiny list - I just merged the referenced content back. Recently, User: Bermicourt added a sentence that this term is used in board game hobby, referenced to a dictionary (lexico.com). As a board game hobbyist, somewhat familiar with the (rather sparse) academic studies on this (such as Wood's Eurogames) which I even reviewed, I don't think this term is notable - it's pretty much a synonym for tabletop game. Which is a poor article that needs rescue, but is notable. Trying to argue that table games is a topic that exists in board game hobby aside from the concept of tabletop is IMHO incorrect and not backed up by sources, and as for the casino games, I think we should wait for the Casino game section to grow before splitting it prematurely. For now I suggest to convert this either to a redirect to casino game (I did so and was reverted), or maybe into a disambig between casino game and tabletop game concepts. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 16:48, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  16:48, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep and improve. Piotrus is right that the article is a mess, but redirecting it to casino game reflects a regional, legal usage. Outside of the US "table game" is a common term referring to games played on a table or using a table. So there are two distinct meanings: a narrower US legal term for a type of casino game, and a wider more universal one overlapping with "tabletop game" but not synonymous with it. There are numerous book sources out that there that use the term in this broader sense, e.g. the Encyclopedia of World Sport (1999) "the earliest mention of pool as an indoor table game"; The Activity Year Book (2009) "Billiards: a table game for two or more players..."; Word Problems: Grade 5 (2003) "... the responses of fifth graders when asked to name their favorite table game"; The Rotarian (1992) "In its early years as a table game, Billiards..."; Indianapolis Monthly (2006) "today's shuffleboard is a table game"; Table Tennis (1942) "I've met some of the finest people in the sport world through the table game..."; Board and Table Game Antiques (2008); Chambers Dictionary (2002): "table game: a board game"; Leadership for Recreation and Leisure Programs and Settings (1999): "a low, organized table game is slapjack or go fish, whereas the game farmer and pig table game is played...". These are just examples indicating the spectrum of usage across a wide range of different sources, there are many more. Even from those few sources we can give cited examples of this wider use as including e.g. pool, table tennis, billiards, card games and board games. Essentially any game on or using a table. Bermicourt (talk) 17:55, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Per comments above, unless we can get proper definition and SIGCOV discussion of this, I think a dab, perhaps larger than the one I initially suggested, is fine. I do wonder if this might be better handled through creating a Category:Table games, which can be backed up by the dictionary definition we found by User:Hobit, rather then try to list all games that may be 'table games' in a disambig, however. Btw, from the definition perspective, things get messy anyway - consider. Board games can be played on the floor too. Pool or ping pong cannot... in fact, I think there should be a term for games that need a table, separate from games that just often are played on a table but don't have to be. But does it even exist? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:22, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree it is messy. But I do think we should have a dab page here one way or the other.  I'm less sure about a category--I'd have a hard time sourcing the use of this term.  But what I did is look at the first 30 results returned by Google and Bing and concluded that there isn't a single thing that this term is commonly used to describe.  There are, however, lots of things that it is used to describe.  To me, that feels like a dab page is what we should have.  Hobit (talk) 12:29, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Doing a Google search turns up a bunch of different things--generally a hint that this should be a dab page. I'd propose we dab to at least: tabletop game and Casino game. Maybe also Ping pong, Pool (cue sports), Table football and a few others (is there a name or article for the general notion of those types of sports/games?).  But I don't think the topic we have there now is the primary one.   Hobit (talk) 17:59, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree that we need something reasonable at this target; I like Hobit's DAB idea. Jclemens (talk) 21:45, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Convert to disambiguation page. As it stands, this is a dicdef, but the term "table game" is just ambiguous enough that it might refer to either tabletop game or casino game, the latter of which describes the term "table game" in that context. In that regard, I feel switching it to a dab between the two terms is justified. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:15, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, passes WP:GNG based on the sources in the article and others that could be added.

SailingInABathTub (talk) 22:49, 11 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @SailingInABathTub I don't deny that casino table games likely warrant a stand alone article, but given that we have very little content about this actually written, and next to nothing in the main article, why not merge it there? In fact, I have done so (merge), so now the referenced content in this article is available at [[Casino game]]. If it grows, it can be split into a subarticle, but right now I don't see the need for that. Better to TNT the current half-disambi mess, make it into a disambig, and let someone start a proper article about table game (casino)  one day. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  09:40, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Per, outside of the US the definition includes some reliable descriptions include more than just casino games.  I don't have a particular objection to turning it into a WP:DAB.

SailingInABathTub (talk) 12:22, 12 May 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:46, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Convert to disambiguation page as per . There are three possible interpretations for table-game: casino games, billiard-like games, and monopoly-like board games. We have articles on all of these, so unless someone can find some overarching link between them that absolutely must be discussed in an overarching article, we don't need this article. We're not here to be a dictionary; the best thing is to use this page simply to point our readers at the place where they will find the information they're seeking, whatever their personal understanding of the term. Elemimele (talk) 12:12, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Convert to disambiguation page per above - As discussed, as the term "table game" can be used to describe a couple different things, a disambiguation makes sense to assist in searches. But as mentioned by Elemimele, it does not make sense to try to cover them all together in one article when they already each have their own articles/sections discussing them individually. Rorshacma (talk) 15:30, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Convert to disambiguation page per - the content is sufficiently covered by other pre-existing articles. SamWilson989 (talk) 15:29, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Convert to disambiguation page or merge back into Casino game and clean-up. Not a notable topic on its own but may be a useful search term. Jontesta (talk) 01:05, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate per above; the article largely duplicates information better covered at a section of casino game, and the lead paragraph even already mentions other things the title may refer to (including tables game, which hasn't been mentioned here yet). ev iolite   (talk)  03:27, 24 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.