Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tales of Tahitian Waters


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Reasonable arguments have been made for the retention of this article, including the presentation of several reliable sources. While there is not a large consensus, this has been relisted 3 times without any substantial arguments for this article to be deleted. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 19:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Tales of Tahitian Waters

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Kind of an odd one; I can't tell if this is a bona fide classic, or an obscure title without any notability. References are pretty rare, and even among commercial sites I can't figure out if it's a memoir or novel. Mikeblas (talk) 15:41, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:50, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Redirect to Zane_Grey, but leave the history behind. I found some mentions in books that give off the impression that there may be other sources out there but I can't really find anything to really show notability as a whole. The two book sources I've found are good, but they aren't enough in and of itself to show notability. The claim about the Old Man and the Sea isn't really backed up by anyone other than Grey's son (from what I can find), otherwise that would itself show notability. I figure that the lack of sources on the net might be attributed to the publishing time periods (1930s, 1990s) being before the advent of the Internet, so leaving the history could help in case any coverage could be found to show notability for an article. I do think that some of the claims in the article (the claim of being the first to catch such a monster sized fish) should be mentioned somewhere in the main article, though. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡)   11:39, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. Unlike the run-of-the-mill cash-cow westerns he cranked out (and Hollywood snapped up), this one is offbeat and unique. While not as well-known as the westerns, sport-fisherman are well aware of it, and even beat-up first-editions copies go for several hundred dollars at auction despite not being particularly rare. Pax 01:47, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment. Auction price is not a measure of notability for books at Wikipedia. -- Mikeblas (talk) 14:50, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, N ORTH A MERICA 1000 00:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Weak keep - there are plenty of books (see GoogleBooks) that reference this book, some in passing, some in slightly more detail. There's no significant analysis of the text that I can find. I'd not be opposed to a redirect but this would seem to have a niche fan base and nobody is trying to promote it so I can't really see the harm in having a proper record of it here.  St ★ lwart 1 1 1 03:03, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, N ORTH A MERICA 1000 18:57, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Keep Here are some sources I found about the subject:  The article notes: "Tales of Tahitian Waters By Zane Grey (Derrydale Press, $19.95) Some critics have suggested that Zane Grey's tales of Tahiti provided Ernest Hemingway with the inspiration for The Old Man and the Sea. Maybe so, maybe not, but readers can now judge for themselves, thanks to the publication of this attractive new edition of Mr. Grey's quests for the Giant Tahitian Striped Marlin (he captured a 464-pound marlin after 83 days of trolling and eventually landed the first thousand-pound blue marlin). The text is illustrated with more than 30 photographs of fishing matters and native life taken by the author."  The article notes: "When he became rich and famous, he was able to pursue his passion. Zane Grey was considered the greatest sports fisherman of his time. A true story he wrote about going 84 days without a strike in the waters of Tahiti, 'Tales of Tahitian Waters,' provided the inspiration for Ernest Hemingway's famous 'Old Man and the Sea.'"  The article notes: "It’s a darn shame he was such a vain, pompous, unlikeable man, because he wrote some of the great fishing books. Works such as Tales of Swordfish and Tuna, Tales of Tahitian Waters and Tales of Fishing Virgin Seas are, even today, among the finest works on big-game fishing."</li> <li> The article notes: Grey's adventures resulted in some of the greatest books on big-game fishing: Tales of Fishing Virgin Seas; Tales of Tahitian Waters; Tales of Swordfish and Tuna, but once again, things went wrong. He took a British ex-army captain, Laurie Mitchell, to New Zealand as his companion but he never forgave Mitchell for capturing a 976lb black marlin, then the largest fish ever taken on rod and line. Their relationship ended in a legal battle, which forced Grey to sell his beloved boat, Fisherman II, at a huge loss. ... Ironically, his fishing books are now hugely sought after, and cost upwards of pounds 100. And on Wednesday a big-game reel named after him is expected to make between pounds 1,500 and pounds 2,500 at Sotheby's in Billingshurst, Sussex. For Grey, this would have been the respect he sought but never found during his life.</li> </ol> The book is reputed by several sources to be the inspiration for The Old Man and the Sea. The book was published in 1937. It is highly likely that a book considered to be "among the finest works on big-game fishing" and "are now hugely sought after" (from Keith Elliott of The Independent) has received sufficient coverage in reliable sources to pass Notability. The book probably also passes Notability (books) criterion 5: "The book's author is so historically significant that any of his or her written works may be considered notable. This does not simply mean that the book's author is notable by Wikipedia's standards; rather, the book's author is of exceptional significance and the author's life and body of written work would be a common subject of academic study." Cunard (talk) 00:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)</li></ul>
 * Another source about The Old Man and the Sea: "On the eighty-fourth day he caught, with rod and reel, a giant Tahitian marlin that weighed 1,040 founds. Although Grey tried desperately to get the creature ashore, the fish was ravaged by shark. Some Grey fans today credit Grey's experience with inspiring Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea. See Zane Grey, Tales of Tahitian Waters (1931), and The Zane Grey Collector, 3:1:12–13. —" Cunard (talk) 00:40, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, - The Herald (here I am) 13:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.