Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Talkeetna Air Taxi (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 19:49, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Talkeetna Air Taxi
AfDs for this article: 
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 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions.  Cliff  Smith 17:30, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions.  Cliff  Smith 17:30, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

A news and books search turns up numerous minor mentions in articles about other subjects. Its founder, Donald Sheldon, has an article but I don't find detailed discussion about this company. Dougweller (talk) 05:51, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Could possibly redirect to Donald Sheldon if it's clear that he still operates it - the wording in his page seems to be in the past tense, however.  Zujua (talk) 07:31, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep A company that operates seven aircraft and has a strong claim of notability as they land on glaciers and provide air support for mountaineering expeditions to the tallest mountain in the United States, Mount McKinley as well as expeditions throughout the Alaska Range and to several national parks in Alaska. The solution to shortcomings in the article is to expand it and reference it, not delete it. Many reliable, independent sources discuss this company, such as this, this, this, this and this. There are many more and the challenge is to identify the best ones and add references to the article.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  18:21, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Actually I found those. I apologise for not citing WP:ORG, which says "An organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability." Several mentions in travel guides or travel books with no in depth discussion is not enough to establish notability. "An organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. " Dougweller (talk) 04:50, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Donald Sheldon died in 1975 and was not associated with this company, though he was a pilot who pioneered glacier landings. A redirect is not appropriate.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  18:25, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Alaska-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 20:02, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 20:02, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 20:02, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment Here's a 1983 Associated Press story mentioned in the first AfD debate that described the company as "an Alaskan institution".  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  02:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete I get that those who do not live in Alaska would feel that landing on a glacier or supporting adventurers seems like a free pass to notability. If you have actually spent any time in Alaska you find that such businesses are a dime a dozen. so, instead of making up reasons to stretch the definition of notability we defer to our guidelines. Just so everyone is clear on this point, here is the closest thing we have to a guideline for this particualr area. Basically it tells us to rely on other more general guidelines. Previous discussions of small Alaskan air taxi operations like this wrre plagued by users making up criteria out of thin air and then proudly proclaiming that the subject met said criteria, leading to the discussions that ended with the result that there is no hard line criterion for small airlines. Beeblebrox (talk) 09:54, 17 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep and improve – This topic appears to meet WP:GNG:
 * Into the wilds: Alaska's towering Denali is worth a peek - New York Daily News
 * Economy worries tourism-fed Talkeetna: Tourism Industry | Alaska news at adn.com
 * newsminer.com • Fairbanks, Alaska
 * — Northamerica1000(talk) 00:56, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Those all look like trivial mentions, where this organization is mentioned in the cpntext pf a broader subject or employees of it are interviewed about tourism or the economy. I don't see any depth of coverage about the organization itself. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Trivial mentions are things like an obituary that says, "The deceased worked for Talkeetna Air Taxi". Phone book listings are another example of a trivial mention.  Unscintillating (talk) 23:32, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, those are other examples of trivial coverage. Being mentioned in the context of a stroy about something else would also be one. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:37, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * While WP:GNG only has the example of the "Three Blind Mice" as an example of trivial coverage; WP:ORG, which applies to the current topic, has 12 examples:
 * sources that simply report meeting times, shopping hours or event schedules,
 * the publications of telephone numbers, addresses, and directions in business directories,
 * inclusion in lists of similar organizations,
 * the season schedule or final score from sporting events,
 * routine communiqués announcing such matters as the hiring or departure of personnel,
 * brief announcements of mergers or sales of part of the business,
 * simple statements that a product line is being sold, changed, or discontinued,
 * routine notices of facility openings or closings (e.g., closure for a holiday or the end of the regular season),
 * routine notices of the opening or closing of local branches, franchises, or shops,
 * routine restaurant reviews,
 * quotations from an organization's personnel as story sources, or
 * passing mention, such as identifying a quoted person as working for an organization.
 * I'm not seeing how "being mentioned in the context of a story about something else" is either trivial or not trivial. I think someone would need to know more, because merely being in the context of other material tells us nothing about the attention being given to the topic in the material with the mention.
 * I looked at the New York Daily News reference, and I see two paragraphs (or five sentences) directly discussing Talkeetna. I also see one paragraph that is partially giving attention to Talkeetna.  By itself, I'd say that five sentences may not be a lot of significant coverage.  I might only be able to write one or two encyclopedic sentences with the material.  But it still counts toward notability, it is a reliable source, and it comes from a source that is 3400 miles away.  Do you agree that this source is not trivial?  Unscintillating (talk) 00:43, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked at the New York Daily News reference, and I see two paragraphs (or five sentences) directly discussing Talkeetna. I also see one paragraph that is partially giving attention to Talkeetna.  By itself, I'd say that five sentences may not be a lot of significant coverage.  I might only be able to write one or two encyclopedic sentences with the material.  But it still counts toward notability, it is a reliable source, and it comes from a source that is 3400 miles away.  Do you agree that this source is not trivial?  Unscintillating (talk) 00:43, 23 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Here is a three-page article on Talkeetna Air Service from the 1972 issue of Sports Illustrated.  For example, we get that the town of Talkeetna, "...can boast of the most versatile bush-pilot operation in all Alaska".  Passes WP:GNG.  Unscintillating (talk) 23:20, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The bulk of that article is about Don Sheldon, I think a better idea would be to redirect this to his article and expand and improve it. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Is the coverage of Talkeetna Air Service in that article trivial or significant? Unscintillating (talk) 00:50, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The Sports illustrated article contains significant coverage about Talkeetna Air Taxi. It also has significant coverage about Donald Sheldon. Northamerica1000(talk) 00:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - sufficent sources to demonstate notability conclusively have been provided. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:07, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.