Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Talkh Chikher


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 23:25, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Talkh Chikher

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Its claim to fame is that it produces 50% of Mongolia's bread, but no RS seems to have done any in depth coverage of the company. MistyGraceWhite (talk) 09:25, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mongolia-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 10:11, 2 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep. This article from the George Institute for Global Health quotes the institute's Dr. Jacqui Webster, who was "was invited by the Mongolian Ministry of Health to support them to develop a national salt reduction strategy". Webster said, "As part of the initial consultation we visited the Talkh Chikher Bread Company in Ulaanbaatar, supplier of 50% of the population’s bread." Pinging who added this source. I also found:  The analyst report notes from Google Translate: "Bread and Sugar Factory is one of the first food factories in Mongolia, which was opened in 1984 in Ulaanbaatar with the help of the Soviet government. It was privatized in November 1999 and reorganized into Talkh Chikher JSC. Now in its 27th year, it has more than 500 employees and produces more than 60 types of bread, pastries, cakes and sweets." More information from Google Translate: "The price of flour has been stable in recent years due to improved wheat cultivation, and the price of Atar bread from Talkh Chikher JSC fluctuated between MNT 592-645 in 2008-2011, but increased to MNT 840 in September 2012, including transportation and other investment costs. . Talkh Chikher JSC alone accounts for 80 percent of the total bread market and 40 percent of the bakery." Also from Google Translate: "Talkh Chikher JSC, one of the oldest food factories, started its technical renovation in 2003. These include: In 2003, Taiwan and Japan imported sugar and hard biscuit production lines, and in 2004 the European Union installed computer-controlled production lines for Atar bread. In 2005, two computer-controlled automatic lines for the production of various oval and square loaves of bread manufactured in the European Union were installed. In 2006, a new fully automatic Dutch-made bread slicing, unpacking and packing machine was put into operation, the first of its kind in Mongolia. In 2008, Mill House Flour Mill commissioned a 20-tonne Atar flour mill in Germany and Ukraine. In 2010, the state-of-the-art bakery production equipment was completely renovated at a cost of 4 billion MNT and two fully automated computer-controlled bakery lines were installed in the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, Italy and China. In 2011, new “bakery” products were produced and marketed using “regulated services”. In 2012, a contract was signed with Czech companies such as J4, Mopos and Topos to install an oval bread production line and sell four types of bread enriched with additional raw materials such as carrots, many seeds and corn. Since 2003, it has invested more than $ 20 million in loans. Also produced sells its products in all shopping centers. ... Decreases in total asset return (ROA) and owner's equity return (ROE) in 2011 compared to 2010 may indicate poor management. From the beginning of 2012 to the present, it has fluctuated by 3.12 percent, which is less than in 2010 and 2011. However, TCK's share price is expected to rise if production changes significantly in 2013 and production capacity increases. Talkh Chikher JSC paid a dividend of 32.3-100 MNT from 1993 to 2011." Notability (organizations and companies) says, "When evaluating the notability of organizations or products, please consider whether they have had any significant or demonstrable effects on culture, society, entertainment, athletics, economies, history, literature, science, or education." The analyst report says that "Talkh Chikher JSC alone accounts for 80 percent of the total bread market and 40 percent of the bakery" and "Bread and Sugar Factory [previous name of Talkh Chikher] is one of the first food factories in Mongolia". I consider Talkh Chikher to have had a significant effect on the Mongolian economy. Cunard (talk) 01:06, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't speak Mongolian or Russian, so I doubt I can be of much use. I only did a little cleanup after turning down a bad speedy deletion request.  I would guess the largest manufacturer of bread in Mongolia easily shoots past WP:N, but you probably need a Russian, Mongolia, or maybe Chinese speaker to really find those sources.  Possibly even someone in Mongolia who could track down physical sources.  Wikiproject Mongolia is a little active, one might try there. Wily D  07:21, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestion. I asked editors at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mongols to help look into sources about Talkh Chikher. Cunard (talk) 08:23, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   19:11, 9 May 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 08:32, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep We have a reliable source here that states that this company supplies 50% of the country's bread. Now Mongolia is not one of those countries about which you're likely to easily find sources online (in whatever language). An assumption of sources existing should be made, given the company's significance, even if the sources have not been found. This is after all the principle behind all the specific notability guidelines. SD0001 (talk) 14:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Weakish Keep:
 * In addition to the sources above, I found this source from Tomsk Polytechnic University, which is a graduate work paper. Some feel that theses and dissertations are questionable as reliable sources, while others at times deem them to be usable and reliable. Using Google Translate, the Abstract of the paper states:

The object of the study is Talkh-Chiher JSC, Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia. The purpose of the work is to evaluate the efficiency of using fixed assets of the enterprise. In the course of the study, an analysis was made of the effectiveness of the use of fixed assets of Talkh-Chiher JSC. The study revealed that the company uses fixed assets inefficiently, but at the same time, the efficiency of using fixed assets is noted. Significance of the work: an analysis of the dynamics, composition and structure, movement and technical condition of the fixed assets of the enterprise, as well as an assessment of the effectiveness, use of fixed assets of the enterprise, the intensity and extensiveness of the use of technological equipment. The object of the study is JSC "Talkh-Chikher", Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia Aim - to assess the effectiveness of the use of fixed assets of the enterprise. In the course of the study, an analysis was conducted of the efficiency of using the fixed assets of the company JSC “Talkh-Chikher”. The study revealed that the company uses fixed assets inefficiently, but it notes the efficiency of using basic production assets. The significance of the work: an analysis of the dynamics, composition and structure, movement and technical condition of fixed assets of the enterprise, as well as an assessment of the effectiveness, use of fixed assets of the enterprise, estimated the intensity and extensiveness of the use of technological equipment.
 * The entire paper is 72 pages.
 * Also, source searches under the name "Talkh-Chiher" are providing additional information, such as this paper found using Google Scholar. The Abstract is in English, and is prefaced with:

The study covered two food companies listed on the Mongolian Stock Exchange. The main data was annual financial reports of Talkh Chiher and Atar Urguu food companies from 2010 to 2014.
 * The Abstract itself is much longer than that quoted above, and the abstract itself actually provides a fair amount of information about the company. The paper itself also appears to coincidentally be 72 pages, but it is clear that the two papers are not identical, as per the abstracts. Furthermore, the first paper listed in my !vote was published in 2019 and the second one was published in 2015.


 * Additionally, the company is listed on the Mongolian Stock Exchange (link). Check out WP:LISTED, where it states in part, "sufficient independent sources almost always exist for such companies, so that notability can be established using the primary criterion discussed above. Examples of such sources include independent press coverage and analyst reports." In my area of the world, which is far from Mongolia, it may be diffucult to find a mass of immediate sources, although I found the ones listed in my !vote in a few minutes time.


 * This article could have some potential to be merged into Agriculture in Mongolia, but I haven't fully explored this option at this time. While agriculture and food production are similar, they are also distinct. However, with Talkh Chikher producing 50% of the country's bread products, information about Talkh Chikher could potentially fit in at the Agriculture article. North America1000 15:33, 24 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.