Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tallulah Supercat


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Leslie Crowther.  Sandstein  21:36, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Tallulah Supercat

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Article covering two different 1970s kids' story albums from UK. Perhaps beloved by a small cult of fans but I can find no reliable media coverage in which these records were discussed with any detail. Even a Google Books search only revealed a couple of bare listings of the records' existence. Also, the Gramophone Magazine link in the article is either bogus or defunct. They were apparently narrated by a notable person, but the albums themselves are not notable. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 01:11, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 01:12, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 01:16, 15 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Lack of coverage. Gogole search basically shows Wikipedia mirror sites and CD shops. Leefeniaures audiendi audiat 01:17, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment:, the Gramophone review isn't bogus... it's the second link you provide above - that's the picture of the cover of the December 1974 edition, and the excerpt from the magazine that reviews the albums. But really, this is so niche and not a pair of children's albums that have ever had any lasting impact (unlike, say, Dougal and the Blue Cat). I grew up in the UK in the 1970s, but I've never heard of Tallulah Supercat. Richard3120 (talk) 02:40, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I meant that it was possibly a bogus attempt to spruce up the article with an online reference, but you are correct. That comment has been stricken from the nomination. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 14:23, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand you now – thanks for clearing up my confusion. Richard3120 (talk) 22:20, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relisting to allow for analysis of alternate spelling and additional source.
 * Comment: Might want to relist because sometimes it is spelled "Tallulah Super Cat" and there is also the other title tied to this article. Found another source using the alternate. StrayBolt (talk) 16:59, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 19:57, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment (to the relisting suggestion from StrayBolt above) -- No compelling evidence given to re-list. The Cash Box page might be a good find but it's too pixelated when magnified to see any information about these particular records. They are not listed in the easier-to-see section headers, so even if they are mentioned it is very brief, thus confirming the reason for the nomination. Also, the fact that there are two albums in the article was mentioned in the nomination. Searches for the first named album under either spelling, or for the second album ("Tallulah and the Cat Burglars"), lead to the same results: bare listings of their existence but no in-depth coverage. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 20:40, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Another week is not a big issue, are you in a rush? The article is readable in full screen mode or via many of the download options. It is only a paragraph, with this sentence (or more, OCR typo) being half of it:
 * In the past they have dealt in the classics for all age groups from Winnie the Pooh to Colditz" but now they have gone into the world of music and formed a partnership with songwriters/producers Ken Howard and Alan Blaikley Tallulah the Super Cat" was the first release and such has been the success that a followup double album Tallulah and the Cat Burglars" was issued Two tracks have been issued as singles with two more to follow in the near future.
 * It probably will be deleted in the end. I don't have access to UK newspaper archives which are likely to have references. StrayBolt (talk) 21:13, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Was not in a rush, and instead did something that you should have done the first time. You said that the nomination "might" be eligible for re-listing because you found another source, but at the time you did not discuss that source in any fashion. Then the admin relisted it with the request that your new source be analyzed, which I did. Even with your magnified text I still favor the WP:EXIST standard, but on that point I will admit that we may disagree. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 21:43, 22 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Leslie Crowther. To be honest, I suspect that enough sources do exist to justify notability here. But 1970s British newspapers and periodicals with a focus on children's media are not exactly imminently searchable online. Regardless, however, the topic is already addressed at Crowther's article (not that it doesn't need some work, too), and, because these are real, are plausible search terms. Additionally, that respects WP:PRESERVE in case adequate sources are evident in future. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 21:24, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think I'm the only Brit who has commented so far on this AfD, and in 1974 I would have been just the age for the target audience for these records. But I've never heard of them, and forgive the WP:IKNOWIT argument here, but there really aren't thousands of dewy-eyed 40- and 50-somethings up and down the UK reminiscing nostalgically about Tallulah – I suspect you'll struggle to find anyone in Britain who has heard of or remembers these albums. I'm not denying there were some big hitters involved here – within the music industry Ken Howard and Alan Blaikley were well-respected composers of pop songs (including no. 1 singles) and TV theme tunes, and Leslie Crowther was a very familiar face on TV for several decades as a family entertainer. But I don't know what evidence there is of notability, or the proof that "such has been the success" of the albums – that just sounds like record company hype to me. They didn't chart, although to be fair, they may not have been eligible because in 1974 budget albums were excluded from the main chart. But the two singles didn't chart, and there's no evidence of a BPI certification either. I don't share  and 's confidence that these records would have got any attention in national newspapers (although if anyone has access through Highbeam or similar I'm happy to be proved wrong), and I don't believe there were any magazines around at the time regarding children's media – it would have just been reported in Music Week in a very similar style to the Cash Box article above. Richard3120 (talk) 23:37, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks like you're right. Not only has it no citations in the Times Digital Archive or the Guardian & Observer Digital Archive, which would have been less likely to cover these albums anyway, there are also no mentions in UK Press Online or the British Newspaper Archive, both of which contain papers (Daily Mirror, Daily Express, The Stage) which are more likely to have covered such things.  I don't think any UK newspapers of this vintage are on Highbeam, btw.  RobinCarmody (talk) 21:05, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for taking the time and trouble to have a look, – I honestly believe the most likely place to find mention of these albums is in copies of Music Week from 1974, but unless anyone is heading to the British Library very soon, I don't think we'll be able to check. Richard3120 (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the wild goose cat chase, but I thought there would be more. Thanks to all. There is more content in the references but it doesn't seem worthwhile adding since 2, or even 3 with Music Week, trade articles wouldn't be enough. Maybe all it would be a "DYK Leslie Crowther sang on a children's album?" or "DYK the hit duo songwriters of Howard and Blaikley wrote for a children's musical storybook?" Maybe that could be added to the two composers. StrayBolt (talk) 17:50, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.