Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tamaskan wolf dog


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Jayjg (talk) 01:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Tamaskan wolf dog

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I am unable to find references for "Tamaskan wolfdog" or "Tamaskan wolf dog". The article's creator states that this is "Not to be confused with the original Tamaskan dog which has no alleged wolf ancestry". csd-a7 does not apply to animal breeds, so the article can't be speedied. Eastmain (talk) 12:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Well I have bred tamaskan Wolfdogs myself, and they have wolf in them, the page is in its infancy, i will tidy it up soon with better references —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamaskanwolfdog (talk • contribs) 12:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete – At best this is a content dispute concerning Tamaskan dog. At worst an outright hoax.  There is no information at all supporting the claim of breeding with wolfs other than one self serving promotional site, which is used as a reference in the article.  In fact, this nothing more than a cut and paste from the Tamaskan dog.  Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 13:04, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Dont Delete – Unlike the Tamaskan Dog wiki page, we have provided a detailed history of the Tamaskan Wolfdog back several generations explaining the Husky, Utonagan, Wolf and Czechoslovakian Wolfdog blood in the breed. As you can see form the 'Tamaskan Dog' Page, they have NO wolf content, but see the thing is, the Tamaskan wolf dog DOES have wolf content and therefore deserves an article, moreso than the somewhat cloudy 'Tamaskan Dog' page. Its listed as a wolfdog hybrid breed (because it is one, as has been proved via references) because it is one. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamaskanwolfdog (talk • contribs) 16:23, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect to Tamaskan dog. As far as I can tell, this has not yet been the subject of multiple nontrivial writings in reliable sources.  The claim that this breed has 'wolf ancestry' and the Tamaskan dog  does not is confusing; all dogs have wolf ancestry; that's what a dog is. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:55, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Please Don’t Delete or Redirect – I don’t know if you are one of the Tamaskan dog breed history disputers, but these claims on this page are founded and backed up, PLEASE read the ENTIRE webpage’s that have been cited. They are conclusive... even from Lynn Sharkey herself (the Tamaskan dog breed founder) acknowledges wolf ancestry in her own breed. Unlike the claims on the Tamaskan dog page, you see Exhaust fumes (Alison Laing of Sugalba Kennels) has not backed up any claims on the history of the Tamaskan Dog breed other than links to her own and her friends websites, I don’t want drawn into the Tamaskan dog (as it is obviously a wiki page that was created and run by several breeder sites hoping to keep the scam going).  We do however know and acknowledge that the ‘Tamaskan Wolfdog’ contain both Tamaskan dog and Wolfdog Blood. If anything it is the Tamaskan dog page should be the one up for deletion, its fraud what the ‘Blu’ kennels have done with that page, and now it’s been locked from editing....  You are right about wolf ancestry in all dogs, but the reason Lynn started the Tamaskan dog breed in 2002 was because of the legalities of wolf dog ownership in the UK, so the only way they could be brought into the country legally was by saying they has no wolf blood in them, this claim was perpetuated even after the DEFRA law changes in 2008. However the Tamaskan Wolfdog should be treated as different to Tamaskan dog in that the Utonagan is to the Northern Inuit. Wiki has a page for both those breeds... So why not the two Tamaskan breeds?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamaskanwolfdog (talk • contribs) 17:58, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I've reformatted this comment; I'm afraid you only get to vote once. No, I'm not involved in any controversies regarding this breed- I'd never heard of them before today, and wasn't able to find any published information about them that would help me learn about them today.  Have you succeeded in finding any published sources about Tamaskan wolf dogs, like articles in reputable magazines and journals? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 18:00, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah I am still learning how to use Wiki sorry. There is a lot of info on Google, and the breed HQ based in the USA has a website that is cited (i think). What are you looking for other than this? I suppose there are breeding lines on the www.the-no-wolf-tamaskan-tale.com breed historian page (its more than they have on the Tamaskan Dog page I might add) and video's on youtube etc. Journals or books? is that what you mean? I dont think I have seen any breed on wiki needing references like these (beacause i guess they cant be checked by moderators conveniently). I can tell you one thing, i have bred 2 litters of Tamaskan Wolfdogs, and I have seen their papers and can confirm that they are both around 30% Wolf blood. What else would you want really? www.rightpuppykennel.com have Tamaskan Wolfdogs too —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamaskanwolfdog (talk • contribs) 18:20, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You've suggested several things that would not meet the reliable sources requirement, but links to two or three magazine or journal articles will be fine- there are lots of significant dog breeding journals, and any notable breed will have been explored in them. Not youtube videos, not the breeders' web site, but published information about this breed in sources like Dog Fancy or Dog and Kennel, for example.  I'm sure you would know more than I do about the best dog-breeding magazines and journals. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 21:01, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. The article lacks independent, reliable sources to establish notability.  This breed is simply too new to have third-party sources interested in it.Coaster1983 (talk) 19:21, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Dont Delete – The article has both independent and reliable sourses (from the breed founder included) unlike the controversial Tamaskan dog page. If these sources are not reliable, could you show me an example of a reliable sourse on a similar breed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ukwolfdogs (talk • contribs) 21:45, 28 December 2009 (UTC)  — Ukwolfdogs (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * If you haven't already done so, you can read the guidelines on reliable sources for an answer to your question. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:01, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. An example breed article would be Beagle since it is at Featured Article quality (which is the highest quality rating on Wikipedia).Coaster1983 (talk) 23:01, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete The nomination is correct: this animal is not the same as the obviously notable Tamaskan dog breed. The "Tamaskan wolf dog" is not referenced by any independent published sources, and isn't recognized by any major kennel club or breed registry. The article is clearly the work of breeders with a conflict of interest, and there appears to be no material which could be used to write a neutral, reliably-sourced encyclopedia article. A redirect would be inappropriate, since it may cause undue confusion. Steven Walling  22:20, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Note to Steven Walling, the Tamaskan Wolfdog does have Tamaskan Dog blood in it... The person who started the breed is called Lynn Sharkey/Hardy and if you read the detail on this web page http://www.the-no-wolf-tamaskan-tale.com/id12.html you will see that the not only does the Tamaskan dog have wolfdog blood (she clearly says it in the e-mail extracts if you bother to read it), it also has blood of a pure wolf in the founding lines.  If you are truly neutral,you will know that the "Tamaskan dog" atricle is not referenced by any independent published sources, and isn't recognized by any major kennel club or breed registry either (and it never will with the shady breeding thats has gone on with the Tamaskan dog). If this page is to be deleted, so should the Tamaskan dog page! The Tamaskan dog has not been mentioned in ANY dog books i have read in the local library (and I read a LOT about dogs)... According to the breeders of the tamaskan dog, it seems that it is merely the new name for the Utonagan... again if you read the webpage mentioned above you will see that dogs that were BORN utonagans suddenly got re-named Tamaskans overnight. At least with the Tamaskan wolf dog the controversy has been settled, no lies, no bull. Just a dog breed, a Wolf Dog Breed.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamaskanwolfdog (talk • contribs) 13:52, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * If you want to nominate a different article for deletion, you are welcome to do so, but that isn't relevant to the discussion of whether this article should be kept or deleted. The question of which set of dogs has more wolf ancestry is clearly very important to you personally, but it isn't particularly important to the deletion discussion, which is about whether the breed is notable, not about whether it is wolfy.  -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 14:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete – There is only one known breeder for this type of dog. The other breeder listed does not seem to exist and they have stolen the same kennel name as the original founder of the Tamaskan Dog, suspicious and malicious all in one. The Tamaskan Wolfdog is literally Tamaskan Dogs crossed with wolf hybrids and they should be labelled as such.--Exhaustfumes (talk) 17:35, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.