Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tanbe10


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There's no point in discussing this further at the present time.  DGG ( talk ) 06:59, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Tanbe10

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Not enough coverage in independent, reliable sources to verify or sustian article. Fails Wikipedia's General Notability Guidelines and WP:BAND. All of the sources are social media and blogs even, as far as I can tell the Persian ones. There is not even a claim they have charted on a national chart and the Top50songs.org caused my computer to open an email window to send some bogus "virus report" so if there is a legitimate claim there, which seems doubtful, it should be referenced elsewhere. J bh Talk  17:02, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  J bh  Talk  17:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions.  J bh  Talk  17:41, 23 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep - Underground music in Iran is a forbidden act in the country due to political and religious laws and keeping good record of the history of these kinds of movements is not as easy as in other places. there are very few lucky Iranian underground musicians that made their way abroad to be able to tell their story in reliable sources. But, that being said, as the writer of the article, I did base the article on some good sources too like SPICEE media or TV interviews and I will do my best to find better sources as I complete the article. I will also include links to charts and albums from Radiojavan (the number 1 source of Persian music). Wikipedia is an open encyclopedia so I also think that people will contribute to this article by providing better sources by time. Thank you. Pourya fa (talk) 10:18, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I thought a lot before nominating this article. I agree that it is a significant achievement for any pop music band from Iran to be known outside of the country. It is, however, the fate of most underground music to be, well, underground and not get much mainstream coverage. The issue is none of their coverage, as far as I can tell, meets the criteria for being reliable sources. The requirements that the source have good editorial control and have a reputation for fact checking and accuracy disqualifies the blogs, Instagram, Facebook, portal, etc sources. Much of the other material links to copyrighted works on sites like YouTube so it is hard to assess whether these are RS or Vlogs. If you would make some specific arguements pointing out two or three independent reliable sources which have signinficant coverage (say a few paragraphs of text or three or so minutes of comentary) I would be more than happy to reconsider my nomination. J bh  Talk  13:29, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the answer. It is not the fact that they are underground musicians like other places, in some countries like Iran, hip-hop is forbidden and can not be signed. it is a political movement that I am trying to track down for everybody in the world who seeks the history of these movements, and this is just the begining. I understand wikipedia's policies so I added new references and edited the article a bit. there are links to other significant artists like Alireza JJ, Atour, Bahram Nouraei, Erfan that fled the country...some of the sources were translated like the interviews. not all of the references were blogs and facebook pages and as I am writing the history of these bands and musicians I think that they are really significant and we can not compare them with other underground groups from around the world. they introduced Justina, a rapper girl. she is famous now because singing is forbidden for women in the country there are documentaries about her. there are links to her interviews and articles about her that she points out the begining of her fame and Tanbe10. I propose you to give this article a chance if possible and other RS will be added by time. thank you again.Pourya fa (talk) 16:37, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   12:01, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * keep The article is well written, neutral in tone, and does bear some measure of cultural and artistic significance. The artists do seem to have achieved some notoriety and the sources do seem to support the material, albeit of somewhat dubious quality.  A closer examination may be justified. I do think the article would be less a candidate for deletion if it had been written in the larger context of, say, political persecution or the underground movement as a whole. As currently written it comes off more as a sober sales pitch than an encyclopedic entry.  Despite this subjective flaw I do think it meets minimum standards, barring any future revelations about the truthfulness of the claims.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:445:8002:BC40:D881:6C8:35AC:EA7C (talk) 13:57, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind contribution. I agree with the flaws that you mentioned and made some changes to the article regarding the "political persecution and underground movement" relations to the matter. Also added some other sources and references. I will continue to improve it over time. still waiting for this nomination to be withdrawn and not be relisted forever. thank you again. Pourya fa (talk)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:20, 9 November 2016 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 02:35, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think a fair amount of leeway should be given to band foreign bands -- it's hard to get English sources for Iranian bands. That doesn't mean they're not at least somewhat notable in Iran. WP:BAND #5 wants two albums, and they have two. Whether those are major-label albums I'm not sure. It's hard to know what is a major label in Iran. But let's give them the break and assume they meet WP:BAND #5. And you've got a decent article with a fair amount of refs. Keep. Herostratus (talk) 00:34, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortionatly lets assume is not a reason to keep an article. We are not here to provide a promotional vehicle or to act as a legitimizer of either bands or political movements. Unless and until they get some coverage in reliable   sources we do not have any ability to know what is true, what is spin and what is just something a blogger feels like writing at the moment. Even the Persian sources do not seem to pass the bar of being independent reliable sources. As we tell people all of the time at AfD, it does not matter how important you are or what you have done in the world. Wikipedia only cares about whether independent reliable sources have written about those accomplishments.  J bh  Talk  01:51, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind contribution.
 * Thank you again. Happy to see that Wikipedia is putting so much hard work in the process of accepting an article as much as we put on writing them. that's a pity that it is still not considered as a reliable peer reviewed journal itself. regarding your final point, it is not about us writers to be notable but the subjects, and I think I tried to point that fact out enough in the text. Nevertheless, I will continue to improve the article and find better sources for your consideration. Thank you again. Pourya fa (talk) 14:09, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Personally, I would like to see this article be kept, I just can not see a policy based way for that to happen. Blogs are just not reliable sources no matter how many are cited. In fact, all of the material cited to blogs needs to be removed because they are simply, by policy, not acceptable. It is better to have a short, properly sourced, article than a long, detailed one based on unreliable blogs. Two or three solid sources are all that are needed to pass GNG but they are needed. This AfD has been open for well over a month, which is exceptional in my experience. Likely the issue is that no one has given a policy based reason to Keep even though all the !votes are Keep. This puts the closing admin in a pretty tough position. Technically they should close as Delete because they are supposed to weigh the policy based arguements not the number of !votes but I have never seen that happen when there are no Delete !votes other than the nomination. If you can please just identify a couple of true reliable sources - independent publications with solid editorial control and a reputation for fact checking and accuracy - that give them a couple paragraphs of coverage and link to them here I will withdraw my nomination and close this as Keep myself. J bh  Talk  15:15, 2 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment I originally closed this as a NAC keep, but I have undone my closure after the nom posted his concerns on my talk page. Natg 19 (talk) 20:10, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Diff of request . J bh  Talk  20:23, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you. after reading the nom's request to reopen the AFD I am surprised a bit. so much insist on deleting an article. not even one delete or comment against the article except the nom. I will still stay positive and wait another month to see if others opinions will break the ice. thank you very much. Pourya fa (talk) 21:50, 2 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.