Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tatiana Thumbtzen


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to The Way You Make Me Feel per WP:ATD. Ad Orientem (talk) 01:18, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Tatiana Thumbtzen

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Only significant role was in one music video, all other roles are very minor. The notability seems to be inherited from Michael Jackson. Also, the article is suspected to be the subject of undeclared paid editing. Atlantic306 (talk) 20:05, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect (to The Way You Make Me Feel) - wildly off satisfying any of WP:NACTOR criteria. That said, clearly her most significant piece of acting is in this video, and it is also the only thing she is likely to be searched for in relation to on wikipedia. Nosebagbear (talk) 21:05, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  Ruyaba   (talk)  23:42, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Dance-related deletion discussions.  Ruyaba   (talk)  23:42, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.  Ruyaba   (talk)  23:42, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.  Ruyaba   (talk)  23:42, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete having a non-speaking role in a music video does not make one notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DannyS712 (talk) 22:49, 9 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a personal homepage.CoronaryKea (talk) 09:53, 10 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. Notability is not inherited. Rzvas (talk) 02:47, 12 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Redirect to The Way You Make Me Feel, which is the only vaguely notable thing the article subject has played a significant role in, and is probably the only reason this article gets search hits -- a. get in the spam hole &#124; get nosey 09:20, 15 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep for moment. An unusual case this.  No real RS on newspaper sources (surprising for a media-related BLP).  Loads of images but that is not acceptable on WP for notability.  However, she does have a book where even though she is listed as a co-author, it was really written by Tonia Ryan.  She also gets a whole chapter in this book Michael Jackson and Women: Chapter V Tatiana Thumbtzen.  I can also see material magazines in which she appears (Ebony), as well as a lot of Michael Jackson books (I won't list them all here). I would like another re-list to check these and see if I can update her article.  No point in having a "contrived" notability from odd sources, however, I'm not convinced this is a solid delete either. Britishfinance (talk) 19:05, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't understand why the Undisclosed Paid tag was added. There is nothing on the Talk Page and the article was created over a decade ago? Any "blocked editors" that I can see on the history were removing material. I can't see where the reason for applying the tag came from? Britishfinance (talk) 19:22, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * A ghostwritten autobiography is not an independent reliable source and the Michael Jackson book sources are inherited notability from Michael Jackson and support her inclusion in the Michael Jackson article but not in a standalone article in my view, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 21:25, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment. She is given a long interview in Spike Lee's Bad 25 (film) 2012 film,[ she also gets a half-chapter in Joe Jackson's book about Michael which has material about her that does not appear in this article. Being the subject of a biography is also part of being notable, particularly when the main author also has their own WP article.  I am not saying the case is a slam-dunk either way, but there are editors who have saved WP articles on AfD with far less material. Britishfinance (talk) 21:36, 16 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Redirect to The Way You Make Me Feel. I do not see significant coverage in multiple independent, reliable sources, or really much coverage at all, apart from her connection with Michael Jackson. The chapter in the book Michael Jackson and Women might be SIGCOV (I don't know as there's no preview online), but even if it is, it would not be sufficient by itself. She does not meet WP:ENT, as she has had only one significant performing role, and I can't find any evidence of her modelling work. RebeccaGreen (talk) 00:31, 17 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.