Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tche Tche


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:27, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Tche Tche

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Fails notability Gabi S. (talk) 09:21, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Middle East-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 09:27, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 09:27, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 09:31, 8 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep and expand. The source cited in the article notes that it is a popular chain frequented by youth in Ramallah. Candleabracadabra (talk) 16:14, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Where are the sources for this claim? -- Gabi S. (talk) 19:08, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Cited in the article. You can find them by clicking through in the references section. Candleabracadabra (talk) 02:36, 9 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I did find this press release via a Google news archive search for the machine-translation into Arabic. Can't offer any independent WP:RS, though I suspect they may be out there if we had an Arabic speaker involved. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:29, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Phil Bridger (talk) 18:46, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'd checked both cafe and resto in English, prior to the Arabic. Found nothing too helpful. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:39, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought that the description of this by the France-Israel Chamber of Commerce as "une des principales chaînes de cafés-restaurants de la région" was pretty helpful. That source seems reliable, and is independent as this chain is neither French nor Israeli. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:07, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I think it's clear that all we have is a brief mentioning in a Jerusalem Post article from 2010, which is also credited as the source of the French article above. If this doesn't fail WP:NTEMP I don't know what does. -- Gabi S. (talk) 06:55, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It is impossible for an article to fail WP:NTEMP -that section just says that notability is not temporary:once notable, forever notable. Perhaps you referred to another bit of policy? -- cyclopia speak! 14:07, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Read closely: "If reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event, and if that person otherwise remains, or is likely to remain, a low-profile individual, we should generally avoid having a biographical article on that individual." This cafe was mentioned briefly in a single article from 2010 and never since. So maybe it was "notable" for 15 minutes in 2010. Now we can reassess the evidence of notability, and find out that it is not really worthy of having an article on it. -- Gabi S. (talk) 16:07, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, you wanted to refer to another policy. You meant it is failing WP:BLP1E, linked in NTEMP just to clarify the issue of single events and persons. Problem is, this is a cafe, not a living person, so BLP1E does not apply. Again, if it was notable in 2010, it is notable forever, that is what WP:NTEMP is about. I don't know yet if it is notable or not, but that sources are old is an irrelevant issue when dealing with notability. -- cyclopia speak! 16:49, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Was it notable in 2010? I don't think so. It was mentioned briefly in a newspaper article. That's not notability. -- Gabi S. (talk) 10:53, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Alright, you wanted to refer to another policy. You meant it is failing WP:BLP1E, linked in NTEMP just to clarify the issue of single events and persons. Problem is, this is a cafe, not a living person, so BLP1E does not apply. Again, if it was notable in 2010, it is notable forever, that is what WP:NTEMP is about. I don't know yet if it is notable or not, but that sources are old is an irrelevant issue when dealing with notability. -- cyclopia speak! 16:49, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Was it notable in 2010? I don't think so. It was mentioned briefly in a newspaper article. That's not notability. -- Gabi S. (talk) 10:53, 23 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, KTC (talk) 18:51, 18 September 2013 (UTC)




 * Keep, reviewed in lots of travel books (cfr. https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Tche+Tche%22#q=%22Tche+Tche%22+cafe&safe=off&tbm=bks ), passes WP:GNG. -- cyclopia speak! 16:52, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's relevant. Notability of a restaurant or cafe is more than a mere mention in travel books. A notable place is a place where well-known people dine, a place that is reviewed in food magazines, with a professional chef or maybe a famous owner. -- Gabi S. (talk) 10:53, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That's not what is required by our general notability guidelines. Note that in the context of WP editing, notability has a definite technical meaning. Coverage by reliable secondary sources is what defines notability, in general, for inclusion in Wikipedia. There is lots of such coverage. That's all we need, no more, no less. -- cyclopia speak! 11:43, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The guidelines say: "It is a generally accepted standard that editors should attempt to follow, though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply." When I see a Wikipedia article about a cafe that no one knows, that was never reviewed in food magazines, that was only once mentioned in the press, with no professional chef or a famous owner, my common sense says delete it. -- Gabi S. (talk) 16:34, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * When I see something covered in multiple reliable sources, my common sense says keep it. This cafe has been reviewed in more than a half dozen books, for example, which makes it quite notable, according to both our guidelines and my own common sense. Guess what? Common sense ain't so common after all. -- cyclopia speak! 16:41, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This is about a chain of restaurants, not a single one as you (Gabi S.) seem to be implying, and newspapers are not the only, and not the best, reliable sources. And what makes you think that this chain doesn't have professional chefs? Is the food prepared by unpaid amateurs? Phil Bridger (talk) 16:53, 23 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. We need to look at the content as well as the quantity of coverage in reliable sources. One of the best-respected newspapers in a country where this chain doesn't even have any branches describes it as one of the leading chains of cafes and restaurants in the Middle East. I fail to understand what kind of common sense would not recognise that as notability. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:58, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete . Yes, it's a chain indeed. Their website is down, by the way. But what makes this chain notable? Do we have a Wikipedia article about every chain of cafes in the world? No, we don't. It is notable only if it has some significant coverage in neutral sources, which happens if you have (for example) a famous chef. They surely have a professional chef, and of course they are mentioned in tourist guides, like every restaurant and every hotel in Jordan. That's not enough to make it notable. See The Four Seasons Restaurant or Le Dôme Café for examples of notable cafes. -- Gabi S. (talk) 17:16, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Your support for deletion is implicit in the nomination, so there is no need for a further bolded "delete". Please reply to the substance of what I write, i.e. that The Jerusalem Post described this as one of the leading chains of cafes and restaurants in the Middle East. That kind of reliably sourced desription can't be found for every chain of cafes in the world or every restaurant and every hotel in Jordan, so your analogies don't apply. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:27, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Gabi, did you seriously say that every restaurant and every hotel in Jordan, as you said, is mentioned in several international guides? Because I highly doubt it is true. -- cyclopia speak! 17:30, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.