Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Temples of Taichung


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There was certainly no consensus to delete, WP:HEY applies due to the cleanup. (non-admin closure) Etzedek24 (I'll talk at ya) (Check my track record) 22:13, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Temples of Taichung

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Bad "list" article filled with WP:OR with no good revision and very far from being complete. Every notable temple on this list now has its own individual article. A "List of temples in Taichung" may be created later, but at its current state would be very short (see Category:Temples in Taichung). ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 04:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions.  ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 04:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions.  ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 04:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Taiwan-related deletion discussions.  ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 04:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Are there not temples in Taichung? Seems fixable. Hyperbolick (talk) 04:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:06, 11 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep, use main to link to subarticles. Could be reformatted more as a list, but I don't see a good argument that deleting the present content helps. —Kusma (t·c) 13:26, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think I made my argument very clear in the beginning, but after writing individual articles for six of the temples here (Lin Family Ancestral Shrine, Zhang Family Temple, Zhang Liao Family Temple, Yuanbao Temple, Lecheng Temple, Wanhe Temple), I am not exaggerating when I say that there is absolutely nothing worth keeping here. This page is literally someone's observations after visiting some temples in the city. It literally has less sources than temples mentioned, and is riddled with tiny factual errors. My favorite part are the two last entries: that's not a Shinto Shrine since it has incense in front of it, and Chishan Gate (article at Jishan Gatehouse) is not even a temple at all. I also find it amazing that Jenn Lann Temple, arguably the most significant temple in Taichung, is not even listed. You ask me to try to salvage this when it is a prime example of WP:JUNK, where something is beyond repair and starting over will make the few editors still around writing about Taiwan's lives easier. ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 15:10, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , I have no objection to this article being started over from scratch, but I don't see why we have to hide the page history from non-admins. There is something that could be savaged: Some of the content about the Confucius temple could be merged to Taichung Confucian Temple, for example. Of course the content about non-temples or any wrong content should be deleted, and the article should link to all of the nice articles about temples that you recently wrote. —Kusma (t·c) 16:47, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I can work on Taichung Confucian Temple to at least a start class. However, I really think there's no way to salvage this article. What would the end product even look like? Best I can do is listifying it like List of churches in London. ◢  Ganbaruby! </i>  (Say hi!) 02:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , I wouldn't object to a list like that. I'm also happy with the idea of combining the article with Taichung, and if redirecting there for a while helps you with the cleanup, that's ok for me (good WP:ATD). If you don't think you can salvage the content (I hope my typo "savage" above wasn't Freudian) then others could still do that in the future. —Kusma (t·c) 10:12, 12 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Redirected. Looking at the content of the article, I don't know if that should be a C-class article or a list-class article. It is really in between. Before we come into that, let's "clean up" the article first. But please pardon me if I don't follow exactly 100% on the Wikipedia's Manual of Style. I shall just speak it up based on my humble observation.
 * Any empty heading title should be deleted first (Wen Chang Temple, Chenghuang Temple, Wanchun Temple). That's not the way how you should write any Wikipedia article.
 * Please add reference to each of that non-referenced temples (Lin Family Ancestral Temple, Chang-Liao Family Shrine, Bao Jue Buddhist Temple, Tzu-shan Buddhist Temple, Wen Chang Temple, Yuanbao Temple, Nantian Temple, Japanese Shrine at the Bao Jue Buddhist Temple, Chishan Gate). If not, then delete them.
 * Most of the photos in the article do not have name/description caption. I can't see which photo belongs to which temple.
 * Among 5 given references, in the order of sequence, 1 is an archived, 3 are dead link & 1 is too general (about Taichung City overview). So basically the article is left with only 1 proper (archived) reference, in which I believe that one can easily trigger AfD tagging.
 * Looking at all of these not-up-to-standard, I have to say this should never be a list-class article. It has to be deleted or (in a 'nicer words') redirected to its respective article. Those with enough references (e.g. Taichung Confucian Temple) should have its own article and those without references should be completely deleted. After this 'purge', then I can imagine the article will be left with very minimum information, in which it can always be redirected to the Temple section of Taichung article.
 * That's my honest opinion here. Cheers Chongkian (talk) 00:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of redirecting to Taichung. I can condense this into a section with a paragraph for each religious sect. ◢ <i style="background-color:#F7E3F7; color:#960596"> Ganbaruby! </i>  (Say hi!) 02:20, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete There isn't much to preserve here. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 01:38, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Be aware that this is a WP:ARGUMENTTOAVOID.--Prisencolin (talk) 01:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Such argument shall not be used for AfD discussion per WP:UNENCYCLOPEDIC Chongkian (talk) 03:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep WP:AFDNOTCLEANUP, needs to some especially with sourcing but this a very valid topic about rich architectural and cultural history. Passed WP:NLIST as many of the entries has their own article, as can be more clearly seen in Category:Temples in Taichung--Prisencolin (talk) 01:46, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I really have no idea how to clean this up, which is why I'm at AfD. What would the end product look like? What would due weight even look like here, and how would you decide which temples are most prominent. Best I can do is listifying it like List of churches in London. ◢ <i style="background-color:#F7E3F7; color:#960596"> Ganbaruby! </i>  (Say hi!) 02:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't think the article looks too bad as it is, it just needs more sources.--Prisencolin (talk) 06:47, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Obviously notable topic - whether it's turned into a navigational list linking to individual temple articles or otherwise improved is something that can be discussed on the article's talk page.<strong style="color:#555555">Pontificalibus 11:09, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep The article has been renamed List of temples in Taichung. So that solves the problem, since its clearly a list article.   D r e a m Focus  12:55, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * From my perspective, if we were to create (or maintain) a List of temples in Taichung article, then firstly we need to have the List of temples in Taiwan article. Once that List of temples in Taiwan article is too long, then only we shall break it down by temple types or temple location (which suits the List of temples in Taichung article). But not straight away to create List of temples in Taichung without having the List of temples in Taiwan article. You get what I mean? Chongkian (talk) 00:25, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter. This list is long enough to stand on its own, so wouldn't likely be merged with the other if it was ever created.  You can't destroy a perfectly valid article because you hope a different one you like better will somehow appear. Category:Temples in Taiwan exist, so you can see how many different types of temples there are.  You could easily make additional lists from that.   D r e a m Focus  02:20, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Your concern is a fairly valid point about WP:UNDUE representation of less notable topics over others. As such I have created that list article which you requested.--Prisencolin (talk) 00:58, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Taichung is now done. I'll work on that red link in the near future, but that section currently has a link to every temple in the category. I'm still in favor of redirecting the list to the section unless we can figure out if a list article is really necessary given individual articles exist, and if it is, what due weight and inclusion criteria would look like. ◢ <i style="background-color:#F7E3F7; color:#960596"> Ganbaruby! </i>  (Say hi!) 02:12, 16 March 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.