Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tenzin Tsering


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Delete Although I am fully aware, as I am sure we all are, of the political aspects of the disputed National relationships between Tibet and China, and of the disputed status of Tibetan nationals, consensus agrees that as the situation currently stands he does not satisfy Wikipedia guidelines. --Anthony.bradbury"talk" 15:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Tenzin Tsering

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

fails WP:BIO and also WP:ATHLETE BigDunc  Talk 19:01, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Strongly keep


 * 1) WP:BIO is not correct. He has played 4 years in the Tibet national football team that is performing within the Viva World Cup.
 * 2) WP:ATHLETE is not correct either: he has "competed at the highest amateur level of a sport". Throughout India there is a competition for Tibetan football players in exile. The Tibet national football team is the highest team a Tibetan football player in exile can obtain. Davin (talk) 19:15, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There's no reason why a Tibetan couldn't play for a professional club. This player hasn't. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 11:03, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Keep and expand He doesn't fail notability requirements at all. He has played for the Tibet national football team which is obviously notable (People who have competed at the highest amateur level of a sport) which has played other national football teams from around the world. It may not be officially recognised by FIFA because of China problems but any sports person who has represented their country immediately passes our requirement from what I gather. I don;t think amateur level has anything to do with it, we have many articles on Olympians who are not professional athletes. Rather the requirements in my view are based around the significance of the subject. If he has represented his country in a sport, this is acceptable I think. The Bald One      White cat 19:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject. Can you find reliable sources for this article? I have seen footballers who played in the Champions League for an Irish football team, (Cork City FC) go threw this process. The team are not recocnised by FIFA the world governing body. We have the Homeless World Cup are these soccer players notable? IMO as notable as this player, but I would AfD them as they would probably fail both criteria I listed that this player fails. BigDunc  Talk 20:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 21:08, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * This is canvassing over here: it was put in small but only football deletionists are asked to reply !!


 * @BigDunc - Monopoly (FIFA) is a criterion of notability for Wikipedia. Davin (talk) 21:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Delete because the Tibet national side is not a member of FIFA. Therefore he has not participated in full international competition, which means that he fails WP:ATHLETE. I think this case would be similar to that of a player who has not played professionally but has represented an autonomous region like Galicia (a bit hypothetical given that every player in their most recent squad is professional). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 21:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Well he is on sites like National Football Teams.com. I don't see why FIFA should be any inhibiting factor in regards to information. Wikipedia covers unofficial or "other" events or issues all the time. Kiribati is not recognised by FIFA either. Does that mean that the side in non notable and that they have never competed with "official" national teams? The fact that the Tibetan side has played numerous "official national teams" is good enough for me. The Bald One      White cat 21:54, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - I don't think the appropriate question is whether the Tibet national football team is notable, but instead whether an amateur or semi-pro player who makes an appearance for the Tibet national team is notable. I believe that national teams which do not compete in FIFA- or Confederation-recognized matches do not confer notability under WP:ATHLETE. Best regards. Jogurney (talk) 22:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed keep, As if a player of Galicia autonomous football team is not notable...??? It's not only Football that counts. Nor that it's not only FIFA that counts. Actually, FIFA as one only criterion is very, but really very unencyclopedial to follow as a lead. Davin (talk) 22:02, 5 January 2009 (UTC)Note: Duplicate "keep" !vote struck; misleading – Toon (talk) 19:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there are very good reasons why the lack of FIFA recognition is important. It means that he has not played in an official international match, as these are sanctioned by FIFA. I think both of you are conflating the notability of the team as a whole (which will have significant coverage and therefore easily passes WP:N), with the notability of an individual player of that team. There are hundreds of semi-professional or amateur teams which have articles, but we don't keep the articles of their players (unless they have played for a professional club). Jmorrison230582 (talk) 22:28, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep He he has competed at the highest amateur level of soccer; isn't that all that is required for an athlete? Enough sources verify the article, and besides, there are other notable soccer organisations besides FIFA. ~  EDDY  ( talk / contribs / editor review ) ~ 22:05, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It isn't the highest level of soccer. He has only competed against the "national" teams of other stateless nations. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 22:28, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - article fails WP:ATHLETE since the VIVA World Cup is clearly not the highest amateur level of soccer. I think that if Tibet becomes affiliated to AFC or FIFA at some point in time, players that appear in AFC or FIFA competitions can be viewed as passing WP:ATHLETE, but as of today they should not. Jogurney (talk) 22:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. The way I read WP:Athlete, it can overcome a lack of references IF the person in question plays at the highest level. Whether, in the case of soccer, playing for some entity recognized by FIFA is in my opinion irrelevant, and in this particular case (a China-related case) politics have a lot to do with that (I strongly disagree with the editor above, for this particular case). In other words, I feel that having a FIFA stamp is unnecessary and is less a matter of sports than of some arbitrary policy. The guy plays on a particular national football team, so he's notable, and playing at that high level weighs more heavy than having independent references--for me. I'd love to hear some other opinions on the matter though; basically, I'd like an informed opinion on the weight of references vs. performing at a certain level, including the hypothetical case of let's say a World Cup soccer player who's never been written about in the papers. Thanks for your time, Drmies (talk) 22:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - FIFA recognition is crucial because unofficial "national teams" play frequently in unofficial friendly matches. I can see that Tibet has played a "Delhi XI" team in the recent past, and it would be strange to argue that the members of the "Delhi XI" acquire the same amount of notability for play as the members of the India national football team. Since Tibet is not recognized by FIFA or any of its confederations, Tibet's players are analogous to those of the "Delhi XI" team or any number of other unofficial teams that play similar unofficial exhibition matches. Best regards. Jogurney (talk) 23:06, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * My problem here is that the Tibet team is not recognized by FIFA for reasons that have everything to do with politics--reasons that simply don't apply to Delhi XI, for starters because Delhi is not a country. So, as I've been trying to explain, while a "FIFA requirement" makes perfect sense in many ways, it does not do so here. I simply don't care for the appelation "official" here. Tibet is a country (my political POV); the "Tibet National Team" is a national team (in my opinion). Drmies (talk) 03:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Tibet is a stateless national team much like the Dehli XI or other stateless national teams like Greenland. They simply do not play at the highest level as they do not participate in competitive World Cup or Confederation tournaments. Jogurney (talk) 04:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delhi is not a country. There is an Indian national football team, in part because India is not a country run by another country which calls that first country a province. The national team of Greenland is not 'stateless' like that of Tibet is. Please remember that sport is not free of politics; to deny that is naive. Drmies (talk) 18:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, there are very good reasons why the team isn't officially recognised given the huge conflict over Tibetan independence and potential problems with the Chinese government over it.  The Bald One       White cat 22:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * But this AfD is about the player and not the team and I can find no verifiable reliable sources that infer notability on this player. BigDunc  Talk 22:58, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It does say a lot about the player. That fact alone that he has played in this selection that represents 6 million Tibetans in exile (not even counted how may in Tibet itself) is enough reason for an article here. Davin (talk) 17:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as fails WP:ATHLETE. GiantSnowman 00:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Not correct. The Tibetan squad represents 6 million Tibetans in exile, so he fulfills the rule that he has competed at the highest amateur level of a sport. This is why WP:ATHLETE is not valid at all. Davin (talk) 17:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong delete - this player plays for Mundgod in Uttar Pradesh, India. This is not a professional club, and certianly doesn't play in a fully professional league. I think there's some misunderstanding about football - you don't have to play for a FIFA-affiliated national team to play in a FIFA-affiliated league. The quality of the teams of unofficial national teams is also extremely low - simply because players, if good enough, will play for the official team for which they are eligible - the pool of players available is small. As an example, the only Greenland player with an article is Niklas Kreutzmann, who plays in the third tier of Danish football. Tsering does not meet WP:N, and doesn't even meet the more accommodating WP:ATHLETE. This player is clearly not notable enough for inclusion; perhaps if in the future he plays at a reasonably high level of football, but right now it's just like having an article about a Sunday League player. Fails WP:ATHLETE, WP:N. – Toon (talk)  00:55, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep--Meets WP:ATHLETE, Tibet national football team is the highest level of soccer in Tibet. Recognition from FIFA is not a criteria in WP:ATHLETE. --Jmundo (talk) 02:16, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Soccer is a sport that is played professionally, so WP:ATHLETE requires a footballer to play in a fully professional league (or equivalent). Jogurney (talk) 02:45, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. He fails WP:ATHLETE as he has not competed at a fully professional level - the highest level any player can compete at club level is in a professional league so he has not acheived anything of note in this area. Simply making an appearance for an international team does not confer notability unless that appearance was in a major sporting event such as the World Cup, which of course can't happen as far as Tibet is concerned at the moment. He also fails WP:N due to a lack of decent published sources - a standard Google search gives nothing of value, and searching on Google News gives us nothing at all. Bettia   (rawr!)  11:03, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Would anybody support a Merge? A brief profile of the players on the Tibetan National Team page and create redirects given that there isnt much information available at present and as a biography itself is questionable as has been touched on above. The Bald One      White cat 11:37, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree. There are thousands of pokemons on Wikipedia and they are so called notable. Each of these football players is notable enough. Tenzin Tsering represented 6 million Tibetans in exile in four years on a row. Davin (talk) 17:23, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Re: merge: I might could support a merge if there are redirects for (at least some of) the individual players. Davin's concern, I reckon, is about respect, and I concur with the sentiment, but there are notability issues (press covering, etc) that are difficult to overcome in this discussion.
 * Let me state though for the record that I think some of Jogurney's arguments are narrow-minded and don't stand up to academic scrutiny: their "FIFA requirement" makes no sense in the real world, and comparing Tibet to Greenland is disrespectful, really, as well as meaningless. Moreover, the statement that "Soccer is a sport that is played professionally, so WP:ATHLETE requires a footballer to play in a fully professional league (or equivalent)" is simply untrue: I played soccer as a kid, and I didn't play professionally. Besides WP:Athlete does not state that only professional players are notable--if it did, we'd have to get rid of all the college players from the US, which is a ridiculous proposition. The individual parts of this logical statement are invalid, and the proposition itself is a non sequitur.


 * The more I think about the Bald One's suggestion, the more I like it--at least until (some of) these players have gotten some coverage. Drmies (talk) 18:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It is unequivocally true that Greenland and Tibet are stateless. It is completely reasonable to consider players in their national football teams analogous. No disrespect is intended to any of these players, but it is quite clear that their players receive significantly less coverage and notoriety than players that represent national teams which play in the FIFA World Cup or various Confederation Championships (such as the Euro or Asian Cup). The BBC and numerous other news organizations dedicate plenty of resources to covering players participating for national teams that play in these official FIFA competitions. They do not do the same for Greenland and Tibet (or the "Delhi XI"). With respect to the application of WP:ATHLETE to collegiate athletes in the USA, it *is* controversial. I believe the consensus is that collegiate baseball, basketball or American football players do not pass WP:ATHLETE, but likely satisfy WP:N if they play for an institution with a big enough profile where they will receive significant coverage in reliable sources. The article in question is not analogous because there are zero reliable sources that have been identified which provide significant coverage of the player. (The NFT page is the closest thing I've seen but it contains the most trivial coverage possible - no birth date, no playing data). I hope that's clear because your post above demonstrates little understanding of my earlier argument. Jogurney (talk) 20:59, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There has been mass press covering Tibet-Team (5600+), Tibet National Football Team (360+) Let's skip the pokemon articles first. Merge is a compromise that doesn't do anything good and doesn't respect the fact that these are all exile national football players that represent millions of people. Davin (talk) 18:18, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said above this is about the player and not the team. He fails WP:BIO by a long way and the less strict WP:ATHLETE. Also Davin WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. BigDunc  Talk 18:44, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Please stick to the facts. This football player does not fail op WP:BIO nor on WP:ATHLETE. Not on WP:BIO, since he has played 4 years in the national Tibetan football team that is performing within the Viva World Cup and represents millions of people. Nor WP:ATHLETE since it is an amateur who competed at the highest amateur level of his sport enviroment: the Tibet national football team that represents 6 million people Davin (talk) 18:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Davin you say because he played for the national team for 4 yrs that he passes BIO dont think you are right on that one, and also you state that he played at the highest level of his sport which is as a professional cant find any evidence that he did. Also to use the analogy of the Homeless World Cup the current world champions are Afghanistan with a population of 32,738,376 with your reasoning these players would be notable as they represented their country. Are the players on this side notable enough they represent 32 million people and are world champions?  BigDunc  Talk 19:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I would have regarded Afghan players notable too. There are English players on Wikipedia that are not known by more people than their own football canteen and what is actually going on here, is that many countries in the world are affraid to have the Tibetan National Team playing within their boundaries, just because they are afraid for Chinese sanctions. Because of this the Netherlands trainer of the Olympic Team did cancel his trainings of the Tibetan team, because he was affraid it could be explained politically. The Tibetan Team should have played in Berlin, but Hertha drew back just a day before, and so it goes on and on and on. The Chinese politics of threatening with trade sanctions (inclusive of sanctioning as well) is here on this spot even influencing you my friend: because they have successfully transformed your opinion in neglecting the importance of each player. There are several players that have been threatened personally. Has that local canteen boy from Brittain any time feared such thing to be able to football on a high level??? All these players are notable, no matter how far propaganda and threats may reach outsides boundaries of particular countries. These players are one for one ethnically, culturally, and significantly notable for Wikipedia. Believe me. Davin (talk) 19:57, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep - subject is as an athlete perhaps already worth keeping. But he is not only an athlete, but also some sort of national symbol and sort of a political activist. If keeping the article is not possible however, I would support merging. Woodwalker (talk) 20:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If he is a notable political activist, he would still have to meet WP:BIO. Where is the evidence of this? it's not even mentioned within the article. If there are no sources to back up your claims, then he does not meet our notability guidelines. Certainly, he does not meet WP:N, and it is only a misconception about part 2 of WP:ATHLETE or the debatable argument that the Tibet national team confers notability, upon which arguments to keep are based. – Toon (talk)  20:23, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As I said, as a footballer I'm not 100% sure if he is notable enough to keep. If you wish to use the guidelines as a set of definite rules there is always the problem of different possible interpretations. I don't agree with you about misconception, it's just the nature of rules that they can be interpreted in many ways. I think that's probably why people wrote stuff like Wikilawyering, Ignore all rules and so on (though neither of these examples aplies here). I feel WP:BIO and WP:ATHLETE can be explained in favour of this article too. When in doubt, I'm for keeping. You may feel different. We shall agree to differ then. Woodwalker (talk) 21:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep, by the way Non-FIFA football is a long article in which the Tibet Team should be cited. There are state football teams that are not recognized by FIFA. --Rédacteur Tibet (talk) 20:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok once more for effect this is not about the team not about a political activist but a footballer who has not played at the highest level of his sport which would be as a professional. This is not some sort of Chinese conspiracy to get Tibetan footballers wiped from wikipedia. BigDunc  Talk 20:18, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it is because of some kind of conspiracy that the Tibet Team could not play as much as it could have, therefore, yes, there is ironically a kind of conspiracy. For instance, the players could not get Visa to visit France a few years ago ... you can guess why. So, the notability here might be linked to this very conspiracy you look like underestimating.--Rédacteur Tibet (talk) 22:45, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * (e/c) They could still be professional. This player could play for a professional club, and he would be notable enough for an entry; but he does not play at that high level for his club or his country. This isn't a political fight, the player just isn't notable enough for an article. – Toon (talk)  20:23, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * BigDunc, you made your point, no need to make it again: the disagreement in part is about what the highest level of a sport is. Some might say that your definition is narrow, some might say it is incorrect (and Kobe Bryant, for instance, seems to think so): the highest level for many is representing one's country (and saying that Tibet doesn't count as a country will not help your cause). Not everything needs to be professional to be notable or worthy. And Toon05, how can you say that he did not play at a high level for his country? (Only by implying that Tibet is not a country.) Drmies (talk) 20:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't put words in my mouth, and please don't try to make this political. The level at which Tibet play is not high enough to fall into line with e.g. playing for England - even you can admit there would be a class difference. Even those who play for the Andorra national football team (FIFA-affiliated, by the way) aren't necessarily notable enough for a article - but those who play in professional leagues, i.e. have demonstrated that they are actually any good at the sport, are notable enough. Playing for a country doesn't automatically qualify you. Do you know how many players have ever played for all of the countries in the world? Many, many of those are nowhere near notable enough to meet our guidelines. – Toon (talk)  20:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It is political--just ask FIFA why they won't recognize a Tibet national team. And you did say he did not play at a high enough level for his country, defining 'high' only as 'professional'--you said it in the very message I responded to. That Tibet couldn't beat England (which I think you mean with 'level') may well be obvious, but that's not the point. And if you go back up in the discussion, you will see that I actually asked the very same questions of the community that you now ask of me, and that I supported a merge as proposed by Dr. Blofeld. Finally, your suggestion that only those who play professionally "are actually any good at the sport," well, that's quite condescending: go tell the Florida Gators offensive line that Tim Tebow is not actually any good at it. It sounds as if you think that WP:Athlete should automatically eliminate every non-professional player--including those who came before professionalization, those who haven't gone pro yet, and those who won't (might cause some problems in track and field, for instance). I simply disagree with declaring 'professionalism' as the sole standard for notability. Drmies (talk) 02:23, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * FIFA's decision making mechanism may be, but our notability policies aren't. I don't know who the Florida Gators are, nor do I know who Tim Tebow is. Frankly, it doesn't matter. Football (soccer) doesn't operate a collegiate system the way the United States does with its sports, and this wouldn't even be a case parallel. Do you realise that none of the sources in the article even show that he has played in a match for Tibet? So, to sum up: Tenzin Tsering doesn't play for a professional team, does not play in a professional league, and we can't even confirm that he has played for a nation who aren't recognised by the sport's governing body. Not only does this player not meet WP:N or WP:ATHLETE in any way, but the article fails WP:V as well. Seriously, there's no way this guy meets our standards for an article. – Toon (talk)  02:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If our notability policy for, for instance, amateur athletes tied everything to a passport and representing a FIFA-certified national team, then yes, our notability policy involves politics too. I don't see how one could deny that (despite the bold print). But I don't believe that our policy is that particular. Look up the Tim Tebow article. He's a great quarterback. Very notable. By the way, European amateur club soccer works very much like American college athletics (to put it another way, if the US didn't have college sports, it probably would have local amateur clubs). The whole issue of professionalism, in my opinion, should not be the only standard. Some in this discussion keep repeating that it's the only standard; well, that's fine if you believe that, but WP practice obviously does not adhere to that standard. Again, look at Tim Tebow, or Tyler Hansbrough. Amateurs! At a pretty darn high level. And very notable. Note that I haven't said anything about Tsering himself--I'm all for merging, and I agree that in some ways he does not meet the standards, but in some other ways he does. High level, sure. National, even if it's not for a 'country', that's high enough. If all that's true, of course. But this rigid adherence to 'professional'...it bugs me. Drmies (talk) 03:12, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Tebow and Hansbrough obviously satisfy WP:BIO; Tsering obviously does not. There is no need to invoke WP:ATHLETE to suggest that Tebow or Hansbrough are notable. In short, they are totally irrelevant to the discussion here. Jogurney (talk) 03:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, that's an answer that's quite helpful (though it doesn't address the more philosophical questions I have). Thanks, Drmies (talk) 04:18, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) It appears that Davin is canvassing for support on this AfD here, here and is telling editors when to comment here. BigDunc Talk 21:44, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't read Dutch but it appears that canvassing was done on the Dutch wiki too here and here. BigDunc  Talk 22:08, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I can confirm that this was indeed canvassing, and the user was also invoking the value of such articles to Buddhism on the Wiki. – Toon (talk)  22:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was canvassing (I do read Dutch). But considering this, is that not the pot calling the kettle black? (And I know how "professional football actually functions," thank you very much.) "This discussion is mainly politically motivated"--to entice those who think 'professionalism' excludes politics to come and vote here? Drmies (talk) 02:27, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It was not canvassing at all. I was working on exactly the same articles in Dutch too. Don;t throw with dirt. Davin (talk) 09:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

That was an action in reply to Jmorrison230582 major canvassing action He even puts it in small but he is only asking football deletionist to react. Don't blame me when I ask three people to react, when just one reacts. You're just discrediting others to win your deletionist stance and are blind for the fact that here is a notable football player at stake. Don't use massive propaganda to win your point and tear down the fact that I noticed just very single persons. Davin (talk) 09:17, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a hell of a stretch to call placing a notice of the afd debate on a relevant project page "canvassing". Jmorrison230582 (talk) 18:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Another massive Football deletionist canvas action This is really beyond any sense of reason to call up single issue football deletionist in your attack of the article. Reason enough that this article should never be deleted! When so many games are played, there may not be enough reasons be left for arguing. Davin (talk) 09:26, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I really don't know where you get this "single issue football deletionist" idea from. WP:FOOTY gets attacked a lot for being too inclusive, in fact - I don't see how getting people who work with footballer articles all of the time to come and take a look at a footballer AfD can be wrong? I didn't ask them to vote a particular way. Perhaps my phrasing was a little too honest, but certainly there are arguments here presuming that playing at amateur level in a professional sport would satisfy WP:ATHLETE - WP:FOOTY members are pretty active with the development of this notability guideline - it's clear that they would be helpful generating consensus. This on the other hand, is clearly very different. – Toon (talk)  14:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

This football team and every single player is very important for Tibetans in exile. Please watch for instance the film The Cup of film director Khyentse Norbu which shows that football is very popular in other regions as well, although the quality of football there has to still develop. Some ethic peoples cannot change the fact that they don't have a country for them selves and that FIFA neglects them not because they want to but because they are under pressure to choose that. Wikipedia does NOT follows world diplomacy rules! Davin (talk) 09:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - This subject fails WP:BIO as they don't seem to have had any non-trivial third party coverage, and they fail WP:ATHLETE as they do not play at a professional level of football (playing at the highest level of amateur sport only counts if the sport has no professional level on a worldwide scale, not just in a single country). – PeeJay 22:35, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:BIO is not correct. He has played 4 years in the Tibet national football team that is performing within the Viva World Cup. Davin (talk) 09:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE as he doesn't play for a professional club (in what is clearly a professional sport not an amateur one) or a FIFA recognised national team (the way I understand it the Tibet team would be similar to catalonia). Also as far as I can see he fails WP:BIO as i'm unable to find much in the way of third party sources. Basement12 (T.C) 22:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * According tot WP:ATHLETE a player should have "competed at the highest amateur level of a sport". The Tibet national football team is the highest for Tibetans to play in: it represents 6 million Tibetans in exile and those in Tibet if they were allowed to know of them. The article doesn't fail WP:BIO Davin (talk) 09:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The article does fail WP:BIO as there are no non-trivial sources about this player ("non-trivial" means "not just a stats site", btw). Whether or not he passes WP:ATHLETE is debatable, but he certainly doesn't pass it by virtue of having played at the highest level of amateur sport since football has a professional level, and this player has not played at a professional level. – PeeJay 10:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Doesn't appear to have played for Tibet so fails WP:ATHLETE. Sources are trivial so fails WP:BIO. Peanut4 (talk) 22:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Not true, please look at the facts Davin (talk) 09:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The facts I looked, used as sources, show he has played zero games for Tibet. Peanut4 (talk) 22:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In Asia things are not so documented as in the West, so something is not a fact when it's not documented in English. Look alone at Wikipedia Tibetan": just 236 articles. Your wisdom is looking with closed eyes. In all the refrences given, this player is mentioned. Davin (talk) 18:59, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Per Peanut4. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 00:06, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * He meets WP:BIO for playing in the Tibet national football team that is performing within the Viva World Cup and represents 6 million Tibetans in exile. He meets WP:ATHLETE for meeting the fact that "competed at the highest amateur level of a sport".
 * Where's the evidence that he has actually played for Tibet? Let's look at the references provided in the article: the first link shows that he has played 0 games and scored 0 goals in the years 2005 to 2009. The second link shows he was selected for a tour of Denmark in 2003, but there's no evidence that he played. The third link shows him a team photo, again providing no evidence that he has actually played for them. The fourth link shows that he was selected in the squad for a tournament in 2008, again providing no evidence that he actually played. There's no evidence that he has played at international level, nor does he play professional club football, therefore he clearly fails WP:ATHLETE. As far as WP:BIO is concerned, this can only be met if there are multiple, reliable, non-trivial third-party sources on the subject - there appears to be none of that whatsoever. He clearly fails WP:BIO and WP:N, and as tccn has demonstrated above, he also fails WP:V as the claim that he has played for the Tibet national team cannot be verified. Bettia   (rawr!)  11:42, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - no evidence to suggest he's ever competed at any level, sure he's on the team list but none of the references provided (and none that I can find online or elsewhere) say he's actually played a game for either Tibet or Mundgod. The lack of any information about him in local, national or international coverage seems to be pointing out that he's not even notable in his own area of the world. Nanonic (talk) 10:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Player fails WP:ATHLETE. The 'amateur notability' section of this guideline is only applicable for sports which have no professional competitions. Football is a professional sport. Player has not played for a professional club team, nor has he competed in a professional international game sanctioned by FIFA, the world governing body. Until this player plays for a professional team, or Mundgod FC is promoted into the Indian League, or Tibet plays in a competitive game sanctioned by FIFA, he is non-notable. --JonBroxton (talk) 19:39, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Per Peanut4. I also see no real evidence for the inclusion of this athlete. Govvy (talk) 23:15, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete If these links provide the sum total of what we know about the subject, we simply cannot write an article on him. If anyone could establish, using secondary reliable sources that he is notable as a symbol for Tibetans in exile, that could be useful and a reason to reconsider. But as it stands, the subject is being judged as an athlete and in that capacity, he fails notability requirements. Abecedare (talk) 22:56, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:Athlete per JonBroxton and also fails WP:Notability, our gold standard for inclusion in the encyclopedia by virtue of lacking significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Fails one of our core policies, verifiability since we are unable to check that the material in the article has been published by a reliable source; none of the references in the article are reliable sources. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 03:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - should the articles on other players listed at Tibet national football team not be added to this debate? A quick inspection of those articles shows they are all along the same lines as this one; play for unprofessional clubs, almost identical flimsy sources that don't prove they ever played for Tibet, which may not confer notability in any case. Of the 22 players listed only Tashi Tsering seems to have played for a professional club or to have played FIFA recognised internationls (for Nepal), but there is no source to prove any of that. Basement12 (T.C) 13:53, 10 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.