Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Terry de la Mesa Allen, Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep (or merge and redirect, if local editors prefer). Opabinia regalis 00:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Terry de la Mesa Allen, Jr.

 * — (View AfD)

(Page restored and added to AfD after discussion with author): Persons claim to fame is being the son of a famous US General. He became Lt. Col., chased some Viet Cong in Vietnam, and got killed in the resulting ambush together with his unit. After his death he had some media coverage due to his famous father. There are two books and one upcoming movie about the battle, and something like 300 google hits for "Terry de la Mesa Allen, Jr." or "Terry Allen, Jr.". In my opinion borderline notability at best, but as always i am willing to be convinced otherwise Chris 73 | Talk 19:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, my apologies for the first formulation of the AfD. Nevertheless, as per Notability Non-prominent relatives of a famous person tend to be merged into the article on the person, and articles on persons who are only notable for being associated with a certain event tend to be merged into the main article on that event. applies perfectly for a merge to Battle of Ong Thanh and Terry de la Mesa Allen (Major General) -- Chris 73 | Talk 11:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep Nontrivial coverage in the book and the New York Times article. The nomination should be revised to be less strident, speculative, and less of an attack.Edison 19:52, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * revised. Sorry, got carried away -- Chris 73 | Talk 19:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge with Terry de la Mesa Allen. Although he is mentioned in the book and was the highest-ranking officer killed in the battle, no other particular notability is established (e.g. posthumous medals). Wikipedia is not a memorial, and over 400 officers of his rank were KIA in Vietnam.Search on O-5 Chris 73, glad you changed the nom. The first version was unduly incivil. --Dhartung | Talk 20:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge per Dhartung. -- Daniel J. Leivick 21:01, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep:
 * On notability: Terry de la Mesa Allen, Jr. aka Terry Allen Jr. was the American leader in the Battle of Ong Thanh which has its own wiki-article, he is the subject of several books including "They marched into Sunlight" which is reviewed here at the NY Times
 * http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B06EED6143DF936A35753C1A9659C8B63

This book is also being made into a movie starring Tom Hanks as described here:
 * http://movies.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_4003.php

He is also the subject of another work called "The War at Home" which discusses the effect of his death (the son of a World War II hero) on the American perception of the Vietnam war
 * http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-3358786_ITM

He was one of the main subjects of a PBS episode of the American Experience.
 * http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/twodays/index.html
 * On if its a memorial: If the Battle of Ong Thanh merits its own wiki-page how does the American leader of that battle not merit one?
 * I think that as a notable leader in a notable battle he deserves his own wiki-article, but if this is not persuasive one can look at the wiki-pages created for other people who inspired films who did far less notable deeds:Vince Papale the football player who inspired the movie Invincible (2006 film) has his own page despite the fact that most of his actual career was not in the NFL but in the less notable World Football Leauge. Daniel Ruettiger the inspiration for the movie Rudy (film) has his own wiki-page despite only playing one down in one college level football game. David Helfgott the pianist and inspiration for Shine (film) has his own wiki-page.
 * The article needs massive expansion and clean up, but it was Speedily Deleted within an hour of its creation and now is under this review.

--Wowaconia 04:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * (Please don't place your comments out of order without good reason.) He is a part of (not "the subject of") the Maraniss book, and I am pretty certain that the "War at Home" piece in Texas Monthly was an excerpt from that book, because he was from Texas. It's unclear that his death attracted as much notice as you imply, but I would imagine not. He is used as an example in the PBS show, but that's more about the effect his deployment had on his marriage, so he's being used as an example. As for memorials, please do not argue in terms of whether someone "deserves" an article, as we don't judge worth but notability. Additionally, inclusion is not notability, hence the existence of articles you deem less keepable isn't an argument for keeping this one. --Dhartung | Talk 12:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep I don't see any harm having an article about Terry Allen Jr. Other Vietnam War commanders have an article, why not Terry Allen Jr.?Canpark 14:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep He was a high-ranking officer from a famous military family killed in combat. --Habap 15:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep or Merge — , preferably keep. Passes WP:BIO and has enough information on him. Wizardman  18:23, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.