Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tessaleno Devezas


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Spartaz Humbug! 04:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Tessaleno Devezas

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Article needs major cleanup, and the author apparently has a COI. AFD isn't cleanup, but I'm also unsure as to whether the subject is notable, so I thought to bring it here first to get some other opinions before embarking a cleanup project. Subject is an Associate Professor who has won some awards, a good list of publications, but after a quick search, I think he fails to meet WP:PROF. What do you all think? Nuujinn (talk) 21:06, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:39, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:39, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  —Msrasnw (talk) 01:14, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 *  Delete Weak delete. Awards don't appear to be major ones. The Web of Science lists 21 articles, that have been cited 172 times for an h-index of 6. His most-cited paper dates back to 1978 (before he obtained his PhD) and has 88 citations, accounting for over half of the total. The articles on which this article bases his notability have the following counts: 21, 12, 12, 9, 6, and less. Running a "cited references" search (which also covers citations to books and book chapters) does not reveal anything cited more than 1 or 2 times. In view of the fact that he started publishing in the 1970s, these citation data do not indicate any special impact on his field. Does not meet WP:PROF. --Crusio (talk) 11:17, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Strong Keep: Sufficiently notable work to justify keeping. Perhaps needs rewriting but is perhaps written to show notability in a vain attempt to avoid AfD. Notability seems to me not only in general but for us who use him in a wide range of articles (| Search for Tessaleno Devezas on Wikipedia). But I don't know how/if we count this -  (a WP-use score of 11 perhaps). (This could have been done deliberately - but a quick look does not seem to make this likely) (Msrasnw (talk) 10:00, 3 August 2010 (UTC))
 * The Portuguese books seem to have reviews in the national press and the national radio interview seem enough for general notability (Msrasnw (talk) 19:07, 5 August 2010 (UTC))
 * EG Modelo económico ocidental vai perder hegemonia mundial - dn - DN Diário de Notícias - Lisboa - Nov 23, 2007 (Msrasnw (talk) 09:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC))
 * Comment I don't think I've seen the argument "we use him in WP" before. In any case, user-contributed sites such as WP are not reliable sources. What doe you mean with "Sufficiently notable work"? His work has been cited 172 times in a timespan of 30-40 years, with only 6 articles having 6 citations or more. That's something like 6 citations per year, I know postdocs who have that much per week. --Crusio (talk) 10:23, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment in reply to Crusio to clarify my confused contribution: By sufficiently notable - I mean he seems to have published work that has made an impact (and seem to me, with an admittedly subjective judgment worthy of including in our encylopedia). His books have been subject to review in journals and his articles have caused debate - in Technological Forecasting & Social Change (A jounral which I have sometimes read) he has articles and then articles commenting on them. (But he is an editor of it). The fact that we use him as source in some of articles although not sufficient just seems to add weight to us having an aricle on him. (Also I liked the finding via this search of wikipedia of Nataša Kejžar - this is what make wikipedia interesting!). His awards and mentions:
 * * “Elsevier 2001 Prize for the Outstanding Paper”, awarded in February 2002 for the paper “The Biological Determinants of Long Wave Behavior in Socioeconomic Growth and Development” published in Technological Forecasting and Social Change, volume 68, Number 1, pp. 1-58, September 2001.
 * * Awarded with an N.D. Kondratieff Medal 2004 by the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences and the International Kondratieff Foundation (decided on 24 May 2004, conferral ceremony on 20 October 2004, at the 5th Kondratieff Conference, Saint Petersburg, Russia).
 * * Awarded with the status of Honorary Member of the International Kondratieff Foundation, certificate conferred in February 18, 2005, at the closing ceremony of the NATO Advanced Research Workshop on “Kondratieff Waves, Warfare and World Security”.
 * * Honorable Mention by Elsevier Inc. to the paper “The Growth Dynamics of the Internet and Long Wave Theory” published in Technological Forecasting and Social Change, volume 72, Number 8, pp. 913-935, October 2005 (this award is published in TF&SC 73(3), March 2006
 * Also would seem sufficient to me. (Msrasnw (talk) 11:13, 3 August 2010 (UTC))
 * Are you arguing that the awards are highly prestigious and at an national or international level? -- Nuujinn (talk) 11:25, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly my point, they are not. As for his books having been the subject of reviews, that may be something else, can you provide references? The journal editorship you mention might qualify under WP:PROF, but our article (and the journal website) mention Harold A. Linstone as editor and Devezas is only a member of the editorial board. --Crusio (talk) 12:03, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added a couple of refs to book reviews. (But not this one on his elephant book: http://www.centroatlantico.pt/titulos/desafios/salomao/imagens/jornalnoticias-18nov2008-salomao.jpg) No I am not claiming the awards are highly prestigious just as indicators of his impact. He was the main subject of a 50 minute interview on Portugal's leading radio station (RDP Antena 1). Would this help - if so how should it be added? I think adding it would help defend the article but would seem to make the article worse. Already I think the article is problematic by an over-stress on establishing notability rather than just telling us a little about him and his work.(Msrasnw (talk) 20:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC))
 * The radio show: Prof. Tessaleno Devezas em entrevista na Antena 1 Sábado pelas 10h, no programa "1001 Escolhas". Sábado pelas 10h, vai para o ar na rádio Antena 1, no programa "1001 Escolhas" uma entrevista longa ( 50 min) com o Prof. Tessaleno Devezas, docente e investigador do Departamento de Engenharia Electromecânica à mais de 18 anos. Should we add the elephant review reference ? (Msrasnw (talk) 21:49, 3 August 2010 (UTC))
 * Ok, so it appears that the awards do not help this reach WP:PROF. Certainly a radio show can be cited, see the cite episode template at Citation_templates. It may be that the subject qualifies under general notability guidelines using such references. As for the quality of the article, AFD isn't cleanup, so if notability can be established, we can clean it up later--for example, the essay section on theory would have to go, I think, but that's all a job for laterman. -- Nuujinn (talk) 21:10, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I think that there is some confusion/misunderstanding in all this discussion. It is important to observe that the professional career of T Devezas embraces three areas of work: physics (solid state), materials science and systems theory/tech forecasting/future studies (henceforth ST/TF/FS). The first and second were started in the 1970’s/1980’s, and the last one started only after 1997, corresponding to the most recent scientific activity of Devezas, which intensified after 2001. This article is composed to show T Devezas’s growing contribution in this last area and it is worth observing the many works (articles, books) published since then (in the present decade),  that have deserved a few awards and mentions.

I would also like to mention that some of the arguments above are not correct when it comes to the counting of publications since 1978 as posted by Crusio. Much less Crusio’s statement that “In view of the fact that he started publishing in the 1970s, these citation data do not indicate any special impact on his field”. The usage of “his field” is wrong – keep in mind that “his field” is manifold. I think Crusio has not perceived that there are 3 scientific fields involved and that the Wiki’s article refers to only one area (SS/TF/FS).

The correct counting we find at ISI Web are 31 articles, with 196 citations. Among these articles we find ca. 20 articles published since 1997 on SS/TF/FS, but mainly only after 2001. Consider also that an article published in 2001 with 21 citations, other published in 2002 with 9 citations, other in 2003 with 14, two other in 2005 with 12 citations each, etc…, all in the same subject/area is a good mark. Scientific impact takes time.

I will work further in editing this article, adding some more references about prizes, citations, etc.. The section on Quotations will be removed and perhaps moved to Wikiquote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JDvzs (talk • contribs) 12:50, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Even taking into account that Devezas switched fields, 192 citations is really not very significant. When I referred to the length of time, I meant to say that the longer an article is around, the more citations it garners. The citation data cited by JDvzs abvoe here do not indicate a level of impact satisfying WP:PROF. --Crusio (talk) 13:16, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment JDvzs, you appear to only have an interest in this article and a couple of related ones--I don't mean to pry, but I wonder if you have a conflict of interest. Also, please take a look at WP:N for guidelines and policies governing what counts in try to establish notability. -- Nuujinn (talk) 15:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment: Have started a little page on the International N. D. Kondratiev Foundation and it and its prize look as though they may a bit more notable than I thought (Msrasnw (talk) 22:46, 7 August 2010 (UTC))  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget  01:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

Comment: Notability seem further supported by the fact that some of his work having sparked whole or comment articles written specifically about it:
 * Discussion of Devezas et al. article - Unconvinced about a 5th K-wave: A response to Devezas et al. Author(s): Ayres, RU Source: TECHNOLOGICAL FORECASTING AND SOCIAL CHANGE  Volume: 72   Issue: 8   Pages: 936-937   Published: OCT 2005
 * Comments on the Devezas-Corredine paper Author(s): Duncan, JF Source: TECHNOLOGICAL FORECASTING AND SOCIAL CHANGE Volume: 68  Issue: 1   Pages: 59-62   Published: SEP 2001
 * What causes K-waves? Author(s): Modelski, G Source: TECHNOLOGICAL FORECASTING AND SOCIAL CHANGE   Volume: 68   Issue: 1   Pages: 75-80   Published: SEP 2001 Abstract This commentary on the Devezas-Corredine paper raises three questions: how do we think and how do we need to think about K-waves, what causes K-waves in the Devezas-Corredine model, and in what sense do social and biological factors add to a better understanding of large-scale structural changes in the world economy. (Msrasnw (talk) 01:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC))
 * CommentA letter to the editor or small commentary papers about an article that he published do not seem to be anything out of the ordinary. --Crusio (talk) 11:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - Seems to be well published. An economist working in long-wave theory, I take it; winning a Kondratiev prize would indicate significant work in the field. The entire section of quotations needs to be blanked, assuming the article is kept. Carrite (talk) 02:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I have some doubts about the Kondratieff prize and even if the gold medal would turn out to be a notable award, I don't think that the second-place silver medal would satisfy WP:PROF. The fact that Devezas is "well published" is trivial: publishing is what academics do. His production is not exceptional and most articles appear to have gone unnoticed with minimal citations to them. --Crusio (talk) 11:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Each thing alone might not (or might) be suffcient to pass WP:prof but all together - also with the book reviews - some in Portuguese national press   and  subject of an interview on Portugal's leading radio station would seem to invovlve a mix general - via authorship of noted books - and academic notability. (Msrasnw (talk) 13:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC))
 * Comment I don't think that multiple non-notable things together add up to notability. The one book review is not bad, but that is not enough. Are there any WP:RS about the radio interview? If it has been added to the article or given above, I have overlooked it. --Crusio (talk) 14:12, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Reply to Crusio A source for the Radio show is : University of Beira Interior's website - here: http://www.ubi.pt/Noticia.aspx?id=182. This seems to me OK since it is the University's site - and so might be an aceptable source - the Antenna 1 site does not seem to have an easily searchable archive. But I don't think it would be useful to add to the article which already reads to much like a promotional article.  Looking for Portuguese books reviews one can find the following refered to:
 * 1509 - A Batalha que Mudou o Domínio do Comércio Global was reviewed in Expresso, 10th January 2009 -
 * Salomão − O Elefante Diplomata was reviewed in  in Expresso, 22 November 2008
 * Portugal − O Pioneiro da Globalização Expresso, was reviewed in 30 June 2007 - Expresso, 30 de Junho de 2007.
 * Our page on this paper is here Expresso (Portuguese newspaper) and this seems a reasonable source. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 15:19, 9 August 2010 (UTC))
 * PS I think I am of the view that he has received significant coverage in reliable sources and that multiple things added together help show his significance anywya I guess we disagree on this but best wishes anyway (Msrasnw (talk) 15:19, 9 August 2010 (UTC)).


 * Comment I do not have a COI, altough I may be quite relative to Devezas, when I started this article I did it with the intention to base my decisions on objective criteria. And from my point of view so it has been, since in my opinion Tessaleno has indeed some academic notability and much of it can be found on arguments layed in this very much discussion. Having explained my impartiality, I would not have this article deleted.
 * P.S.: Note that there even more references regarding his books other than the ones Msrasnw posted above, which I will later post to this discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JDvzs (talk • contribs) 20:11, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Question, JDvzs, are you saying that you are related to the subject of the article? -- Nuujinn (talk) 20:35, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Would that matter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JDvzs (talk • contribs) 18:22, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment You might like to look at the Conflict of interest policy. -- Radagast 3 (talk) 21:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment JDvzs, yes, it would, and if you are a relative, better to acknowledge it, so at least everyone knows what the possible conflict of interest is. It is difficult for most people to edit articles on subject to which they have a close relationship, but not impossible. -- Nuujinn (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.