Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The 4th Coming (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Stifle (talk) 09:51, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

The 4th Coming
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Appears to be a repost, but differs from the version discussed in the last AfD. The article still does not show how the game is notable, nor provide reliable, third-party references. The 4th Coming is mentioned at places like CNET and MMORPG.com, but only with a publisher's description. No Google News, Book or Scholar hits. Marasmusine (talk) 08:12, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletion discussions.  Marasmusine (talk) 08:15, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
 * DELETE. I don't really see much indicating notability of the article. A google search leads to mostly download sites, some reputable sites that have a section for the game, but only mirroring info from the official site. So far, these two pages on IGN is the best I can come up with. Not anything remarkable, really. Eik Corell (talk) 11:31, 21 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete - no reliable, significant coverage. --Teancum (talk) 17:12, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I am the one that re-created The 4th Coming page. Is has been one of the first MMORPGs and is still remembered, both in France and in Italy. This is the google search for "La Quarta Profezia", the Italian localization: http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=la+quarta+profezia&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 An English page is fundamental for this game, it would be ridiculous to have a French and an Italian one only, when the original language was English. Rikkomba —Preceding undated comment added 17:54, 22 April 2010 (UTC).
 * It seems to be "La Quatrième Prophétie" at the .fr wikipedia. Sadly, doesn't cite any reliable, third-party sources. I couldn't find it at the .it Wikipedia. I'm not familiar with any of the sites returned from the above web search, but ludus.it and multiplayer.it, iniziopartita.it and ciao.it have things to say about the game beyond a publisher's description. Does anyone think these qualify as WP:RS? Marasmusine (talk) 08:02, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can quote, translate and ref them, then they could do. The article would need reception section first though. — H3llkn0wz ▎talk 16:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Week delete. Week keep. Doesn't seem to have adequate secondary coverage (that can be used as is). Doesn't have reception. — H3llkn0wz ▎talk 16:01, 24 April 2010 (UTC) Changed opinion. — Hellknowz  ▎talk 12:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

''Quote from Wikipedia : Wikipedia seeks to create a summary of all human knowledge in the form of an online encyclopedia. Since it has virtually unlimited disk space it can have far more topics than can be covered by any conventional print encyclopedias.''
 * Keep - when Wikipedia stopped being an Encyclopedia already ?

T4C, The 4th Coming or La Quatrième Prophétie was the first free MMORPG played in France in the 96-98's, this game stills lives today and have many players despite it's old age, the developpement continues on it, everyday, removing the entry from Wikipedia means denying the right to exist, and choosing not to answer a visitor : What is The Fourth Coming ? Wikipedia has grown a lot, thanks to contribution of internet, and has become a must-go, and is now nearly the number-one source for "What is ?" questions. Will you take the responsibility to censor The 4th Coming's past, present and future existance ? BL.
 * The very passage you link to explains why we don't have an article on every single conceivable topic. "Notability" is the (fuzzy) line we draw. "It's been around for a while" and "People play it" are not indications of notability. Also, "...removing the entry from Wikipedia means denying the right to exist" is a non-sequitor. What would help is if you can point to where this game has been covered (e.g. reviewed) in reliable publications. I'm still mulling over the four websites I linked to above, but since I don't speak Italian it's difficult to gauge if they have "a reputation for fact checking and accuracy". Marasmusine (talk) 10:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

La quatrième prophétie : dossier , and here is an automated google translation : The 4th Coming : review
 * Here is a link to a game review posted 6 months ago on the biggest french website dealing with videogames : jeuxvideo.com :

CanardPC Special MMO
 * Here is a link to a very notable french magasine (paper-printed) that published very recently a MMORPG-special edition that talks about T4C :

La 4eme Prophétie
 * Here is a link to a review of the game, made by one of the biggest mmorpg-community-managed website : jeuxonline.info :


 * Can you include these in the article following WP:NONENG? — Hellknowz ▎talk 12:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Sure, this can be translated in english + quoted in original language, but where do I add these quotations ? Thanks for your help. BL


 * You add references to material that is mentioned in the source. In fact, it should be the other way around. You add material to the article and then reference it.
 * For example, www.mmosite.com/frenchMMOs.html says "Game was first French MMO.".
 * So write: "The game was the first French MMO. " My syntax may be slightly off but I think that's sufficient. Sorry for French puns. — Hellknowz  ▎talk 14:47, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


 * "community-managed" is a red flag for our reliability standards, so please don't use Jeuxonline. However, jeuxvideo.com's publisher and editorial team looks convincing, as does Canard PC; although the extent of the coverage in the latter publication remains to be seen. I will give the benefit of the doubt and switch to keep. Thanks! Marasmusine (talk) 15:26, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Marasmusine directly above. Enough coverage has been found to assert notability and add some more reliable sourcing.  Regards,    A rbitrarily 0    ( talk ) 23:36, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.