Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Chosen One (trope)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep - with no prejudice against the merge proposal being discussed further on the article's talk page. Closing this AfD as there is no consensus to delete. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 16:08, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

The Chosen One (trope)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Mostly just a WP:DICDEF with an example farm attached. No real difference with hero, surely any relevant information can be incorporated there. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Science fiction and fantasy.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

keep or merge with hero aside form the list it has some pretty valuable info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2006toyotacorrola (talk • contribs) 15:10, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep I think the entry paragraph already goes beyond a pure definition. (Just compare it to the actual dictionary definition.) The secondary sources do not support "No real difference with hero", as one already says, it "is a very specific trope in F/SF" (rooted in religion). (You can have a group of heroes, but only one Chosen One, can't you?) Then, the trope is currently not discussed at hero at all. If "surely any relevant information can be incorporated there", why are we leading a deletion discussion, rather than a merge discussion? As we already have at least two relevant secondary sources, Fantasy Magazine and Tor.com (which do discuss the pros and cons of the trope, so they go beyond a dictionary definition, too), notability is established, and the article could be expanded. WP:DELETIONISNOTCLEANUP and notability is not based on an article's current status. Granted, the trope is so ubiquitous that few sources stop to talk about the Chosen One as such (like this PhD thesis, p. 94-59 does) before going into a discussion of how it is applied in specific works (and such sources are numerous). But that's all the more reason we should provide info on the basic concept here on Wikipedia for the interested reader. Daranios (talk) 16:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, Chosen Ones can be multiple quite easily, which is another reason why this article's title and body content is misleading at best.
 * Deletion discussion is because merge discussions can also be done at AfD. That is perfectly normal Wikipedia policy, if the article is believed to be totally unencyclopedic in its current state.
 * WP:SCHOLARSHIP states that thesis papers are highly dubious as reliable sources as they are often subject to little scrutiny. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:24, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * "this article's title and body content is misleading at best" is a new argument. The term is what it is (except if you want to claim WP:NEOLOGISM somehow). Would you care to elaborate where the article is misleading despite being mostly sourced?
 * And what was your reason for deletion again? I thought it might be "5. Contentforks", which explicitely says it's a reason for deletion "unless a merger or redirect is appropriate". Then deletion policy says "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page" and lists merging as one way that editing can improve an article percieved as too short. So while a merge can sometimes be the outcome of a deletion discussion in opposition to the nomination, those Wikipedia policies I have seen say the opposite of "merge discussions can also be done at AfD" (and for good reasons).
 * I would be really curious if there are existing examples of a group of Chosen Ones in fiction or religion. Daranios (talk) 11:39, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Daranios Chosen people? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:46, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Interesting! I'd say it's not really the same trope, though. Daranios (talk) 20:23, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Daranios Not the same but highly related. Chosen one vs chosen group. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:18, 27 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep and expand/improve. This is a well-worn and well-documented literary and cultural trope. BD2412  T 16:23, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not TVTropes. Something must have discussion in RS as an individual concept, not just be a trope. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:20, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * In addition to the RS already mentioned above, this one also discusses the concept for two paragraphs. Daranios (talk) 16:39, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to hero and remove the list. There is a way to cover this on an encyclopedia, and I agree with the nominator that it isn't a TV tropes style list. There is a good paragraph to be written about a hero and their destiny. Shooterwalker (talk) 20:14, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  merge Weak keep. It's a bit complicated. We have one decent paragraph that might be merged to hero, hero's journey or list of stock characters, and a fancrufty list that needs to be deleted per WP:IPC. The question is, whether the trope of chosen one warrants a stand-alone article or a merger? The term is used but I am having trouble locating a clear definition, which leads me to suspsect "chosen one" is just a synonym for hero, and therefore, a merge would be best. According to and, the only difference between "chosen one" and "hero" from "hero's journey" is that the chosen one doesn't have a choice in becoming a hero. I just don't see the need to split this trope into a separate article unless more SIGCOV sourcing is found, a merge. Regarding where to merge, I think the best place right now is the chosen one entry in the table at List of stock characters. Our articles on hero and hero's journey don't mention this term, although they probably should. PS. To be clear, I am not far from leaning weak keep as well. If this is expanded (text-wise, the unrefeenced IPC-violating list needs to go), this might be ok as stand-alone article. But if all we have is the current one paragraph, the table I link to will be a valid merge target. PPS. Last thought: the current article also suffers from no scholarly sources, the best we have are two online "trade journals", aka minor sf websites/magazines, The Nerd Daily and Fantasy Magazine (the former article by Anita Olsen Stoebakk, the latter article authored by K. Tempest Bradford; tentatively I'd call the second one reliable, but I have my doubts about the first one). PPPS. I didn't notice Tor's article . With two reliable and SIGCOV meeting sources, I guess this is a borderline keep for this trope, also when we factor in some other sources found, like the two paragraphs in the book Daranios mentioned (I didn't verify, no access through TF site, can anyone link it if it's in IA or another place that's accessible without $$$?). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:41, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The Routledge Companion to Imaginary Worlds is also avialable on Google books, though I could see the relevant pages at some times but not others. Daranios (talk) 20:23, 26 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment I'm not voting because I created it but ... Chosen One is very common in contemporary storytelling (practically BLUE). The article probably falls under DELETIONNOTCLEANUP. I don't think Chosen One is the same thing as Hero because there are plenty of heroes that aren't destined, chosen or supernatural. For example Alice (Alice's Adventures in Wonderland) and Dorothy (Wizard of Oz) fit into Hero's journey but they're not the chosen one (afaik). Chosen One is different from Chosen people because Chosen People is a religious term. Chosen One is influenced by religion but it's not necessarily religious. Chosen One could be a sub-topic of hero or hero's journey. No problem with merging into a section in either of those articles, but it's not the same exact concept. My intention in creating this article was to have a place where Chosen One is discussed, since the list Chosen one doesn't do that. The void century (talk) 19:48, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Here's another source that has a whole chapter on The Chosen One as a trope. Young Adult Fantasy Fiction - Conventions, Originality, Reproducibility
 * The void century (talk) 03:15, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 * You pretty much admitted that "Chosen One" is a subgroup of heroes, ones who are picked by destiny. It can definitely be mentioned in a paragraph or section without requiring a whole article. I don't see the type of Chosen One who is not actually a hero. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:42, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Subgroup is not the same as no real difference with hero. Is young adult fiction the same as fiction? You need to demonstrate that The Chosen One (trope) is not notable enough to have a standalone article. The void century (talk) 19:12, 29 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.