Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in North Dakota


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Star  Mississippi  15:18, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in North Dakota

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Lacks any significant coverage specifically about the topic. Out of the reliable sources there are two passing mentions and one statistic. –– FormalDude  (talk)  04:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Religion, Christianity,  and North Dakota. –– FormalDude   (talk)  04:33, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Sources exist: a doubling of missionaries in the Dakotas, the foundation of a temple at Bismarck, a conference in Bismarck, and a history of Mormons in the Dakotas. The last one is considered a primary source as an official publication of the LDS Church. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 04:56, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Neither Church News nor the faith section of Deseret News are neutral or independent and therefore do not count towards notability. See WP:LDS/RS. And the Grand Forks Herald source is not specifically about North Dakota, it's about both of the Dakotas. –– FormalDude  (talk)  04:59, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * According to WP:LDS/RS, the Deseret News is independent and generally reliable. 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 05:42, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Check again, the wikiproject page was either out of date or falsified. Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 15:10, 25 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Would you suggest Merging into page called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Dakotas"? - Similar to Pages like the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Samoan Islands or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Ireland. While the Grand Forks Herald source is not specifically about North Dakota, it is specific to the region, and would not apply to the church as a whole. Thanks.-- Dmm1169 (talk) 05:45, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The faith section of Deseret News is not independent. –– FormalDude  (talk)  05:48, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That's a possibility, but I wouldn't suggest it based on a single source that isn't extremely in-depth in the first place. –– FormalDude  (talk)  05:48, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think that's a reasonable compromise, if no one comes up with better sources for North Dakota specifically 𝕱𝖎𝖈𝖆𝖎𝖆 (talk) 05:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)


 * This is listed and labeled as a stub on the page since its creation in hopes for it to be expanded in future use. Content that is present does relate to the topic. I would like to see more third party content, but for now, it's a stub. I did see an issue in the History Section where it directly referred to external links which I edited in effort to correct. -- Dmm1169 (talk) 05:05, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, clearly fails WP:GNG. We lack the quantity of significant coverage in independent WP:RS that we are required to have. Horse Eye&#39;s Back (talk) 15:02, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, I've found some additional independent sources that go beyond a passing mention regarding the Church in North Dakota -, , . I think there are a few others out there that have turned up as citations is google searches, but are not readily available (if at all) online so it's not possible to see how they might help. --FyzixFighter (talk) 00:43, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Also now per WP:HEY as another editor and myself have identified 5 additional independent reliable sources and used them to expand the article, particularly the history section. --FyzixFighter (talk) 12:38, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. While we apparently do have articles about the LDS Church in each of the 50 states, I don't think we need to. In some states, the LDS Church is very prominent; a few other states are important to Mormon history or theology; but some other states don't have sufficient notability vis-a-vis the church to warrant a separate article. I believe North Dakota is one of the latter. Note that one of the two sentences in the "History" section says, "In 2020, the LDS Church temporarily canceled services and other public gatherings in response to the spread of the coronavirus pandemic which resumed online and/or in person, depending on the congregation." The same applies to pretty much every religious denomination in every state of the United States, not just the LDS Church in North Dakota, and it's cited to a Wall Street Journal article titled "Mormon Church Cancels Services World-Wide Amid Coronavirus Crisis" (emphasis added). --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:25, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * North Dakota has more members per capita than any other state east of the Rocky Mountains. While it's not directly on the Mormon Trail, a significant amount of church history has occurred within the state. I haven't put in much on this page as I would like to put in the time to research and verify sources prior to implementation into this page. I also prefer if others contribute with the page. I was not the author of the phrase ""In 2020, the LDS Church temporarily canceled services and other public gatherings in response to the spread of the coronavirus pandemic which resumed online and/or in person, depending on the congregation." but left it as in this case, it clarifies why the number of missionaries doubled (missionaries sent to foreign missions being pulled back to the US to serve within the US). Otherwise, I would have deleted it like I did with most other LDS in state/country pages. Other users have contributed to this page and I would like to see more.
 * This page is clearly a stub, but this status is not intended to be permanent because of it's history and role in the church and region. Dmm1169 (talk) 03:34, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree the COVID shutdown statement and reference are too broad. Both myself and another editor have expanded the history section based on several independent sources. --FyzixFighter (talk) 12:38, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Similar to discussions occurred with at least Articles for deletion/The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Missouri (2009) and Articles for deletion/The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Maine (2021), there was a previous deletion discussion that resulted in "no consensus" and "keep", respectively. This page is very similar in format as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Maine, except this page has more external sourced material than when Maine was nominated for deletion. This is a stub, there's is substantial history and other. However, I am open to merging and creating "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Dakotas", although the Dakotas are two different states, and it would be inconsistent with the other LDS in State pages. There's more than 10,000 members and significant local church history. So even though it's a stub class article now, it has plenty of room to grow and improve according to Wikipedia policy and standards.
 * Prior to nomination of this page for deletion, blanked this and dozens of other pages, including above mentioned pages which had a consensus of Keep in which  and others took time to revert these pages back. --Dmm1169 (talk) 04:29, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Bulgaria (2022) is another article nominated for deletion in the past, but this concerned a mass nomination of 100+ pages. Due to similarities in both request and discussion in these previous nominations, comments and conclusions made in these discussions and should be considered. Dmm1169 (talk) 04:54, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There was only one article that I blanked that had a previous consensus of keep, and I admitted my mistake. Not sure why you think that's appropriate to bring up here. –– FormalDude  (talk)  15:45, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Right now, I'm seeing this as No consensus. Maybe another week will help. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:40, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Recent updates to the article have provided sufficient independent sourcing to justify its notability. Dare I say, WP:HEY look at it now? Rollidan (talk) 20:05, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
 * There's still not enough coverage in independent reliable sources to pass GNG. –– FormalDude  (talk)  04:46, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Relisting to consider improvements to the article since nomination. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 08:39, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Probably would have chimed in with the same !vote regardless of recent edits, but the article has been expanded to the point where I don't think it's in question anymore. --WhoIs 127.0.0.1 ping/loopback 12:34, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak keep per others, though I"m not really able to find many independent sources. Note: I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, however this has no influence on my !vote since I am viewing it from the perspective of a non-member. ― Blaze WolfTalkBlaze Wolf#6545 13:22, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OUTCOME and ; we almost always delete individual or local missions. If this was large enough to constitute a diocese in a Christian church, I'd accept it, for example, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Florida, but this is a small region with 26 churches, chapels and missions. There's more than that in NYC. Bearian (talk) 02:56, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comparison to NYC seems a bit misleading. We do have articles on small diocese and other Christian church groupings of comparable size, such as Roman Catholic Diocese of Juneau (~10k members and 10 parishes), Roman Catholic Apostolic Vicariate of Jolo (~30k members, 5 parishes), Roman Catholic Territorial Prelature of Batanes (~15k members, 6 parishes), Roman Catholic Territorial Prelature of Loreto, etc. Since Metropolitan90's comments, the history section has been significantly expanded with over 5 independent, reliable, and in-depth sources. --FyzixFighter (talk) 14:32, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
 * None of the sources in the history section talk about the LDS Church in North Dakota specifically, and therefore none of them can be counted towards GNG. –– FormalDude  (talk)  11:12, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I would disagree. this source talks about the LDS Church in North Dakota specifically, same with this one and this as well. All of them can be counted towards GNG, as they all are news articles about the growth of the church in the state. Rollidan (talk) 18:38, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.