Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Free Beer and Hot Wings Show (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. The article needs some work, but that in itself is no reason to delete it. There is clearly no consensus here to delete. Rjd0060 (talk) 22:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The Free Beer and Hot Wings Show
AfDs for this article: 


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Article recreated for a second time despite being deleted by AFD process (see first AFD and second AFD) with no deletion review. The new article still does not address the concerns raised of establishing notability or providing reliable third-party references. I did not tag it for speedy deletion G4 because it has been a year since the previous AFDs and the content may have changed. Khatru2 (talk) 19:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep This radio show is on over fifteen stations. I've listened for over three years and I know many people who go there for information about whats going on and what stuff means. It is very hard to get sources for the information because it is all said over the air. --Computergeek1507 (talk) 20:50, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - but fix up. Syndicated, so it is probably notable. Cut out most of the article though--SevernSevern (talk) 21:39, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep, fix, and continue to strongly enforce verifiability policies with regards to this article. There is a long list of MySpace links here as well, which I believe we can do without.  Coccyx Bloccyx (talk) 22:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Show is apparently syndicated as far away as Vermont. Sounds notable enough to me.  The discussion page makes mention of them vandalising their own page, but that is no reason to delete the article. -Verdatum (talk) 22:18, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep This show referenced wikipedia many times this morning. Segelflugzeugwettbewerber (talk) 03:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment and that makes the article notable how?--Rtphokie (talk) 22:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions.   -- Fabrictramp (talk) 13:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions.   -- Fabrictramp (talk) 13:51, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OR, WP:N, I'm not finding any verifiable sources. Wikipedia notability standards don't grant any exceptions to radio shows.--Rtphokie (talk) 17:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Nationally syndicated show has notability, I've added a few reliable secondary sources to the article and a couple of reliable primary sources as well. - Dravecky (talk) 20:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment What reliable sources were added? The Philadelphia Daily News article doesn't appear to have anything to do with this subject.  The Post and Courier is about a station format change and while it mentions this show, it really doesn't establish it's notability. The rest of the references added in the past few days are not 3rd party and either come from the official show pages or station schedule pages.  For a syndicated show, reliable sources establishing notability should be easier to come by.--Rtphokie (talk) 22:50, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply The Daily News article is a radio column that includes this: "The Free Beer & Hot Wings Show is coming to WMGK (102.9-FM) on July 30. The syndicated radio show, based in Michigan, is hosted by Gregg Daniels (aka "Free Beer"), Chris Michels (aka "Hot Wings") and Eric Zane, and airs Monday-Thursdays, 10 p.m. to 1 a.m. The show was heard on the former 97.5 The Hawk." The Grand Haven Tribune covers the show in depth and detail. Other secondary sources establish the various stations on which the show can be heard and provide reference for various facts in the article. - Dravecky (talk) 01:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete unless citations from reliable sources are added to comply with the verifiability policy. Stifle (talk) 20:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep show is definitely noteable, and I am sure if someone looked, they would find the necessary sources.  &lt;3  Tinkleheimer   TALK!!  00:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: It's the responsibility of those who want the article included/kept to come up with sources. Stifle (talk) 19:19, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - I stood up for it last time it was here for AFD and am here again. The show has grown even more since the last time bringing on a few more affiliates, and only being dropped by 2, one because the affiliate changed format and the other because it was just stupid to put on in the manner they do so they got no ratings. They may not be on a Howard Stern level of notability but they have a huge following across the country even in places they don't syndicate to. The reason there aren't complete sources for all of the things is because of the fact the only true reference would be a podcast of that specific broadcast to get proof of some of these. Yes the page needs to get a little spring cleaning done to it, but it doesn't diserve to be deleted. There is proof it has grown in being noteworthy here even with the fact there is more support than just me and a logged IP as it was last time. I have little faith in this whole Wiki system here so I am not holding my breath on the concept this may stick but I do believe every once in a while the right thing gets done. --Assassin Haiku (talk) 16:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Speaking as someone who endorses the inclusion of this article, I feel compelled to say that if the only way you can verify something is by listening to the podcast, then that material probably should not be added in the first place. As a general rule of thumb we work from published third party sources, not primary sources.  This allows us to avoid placing WP:UNDUE weight on certain content and helps to prevent quality articles from degrading into fan-pages loaded down with unnecessary trivia.  Don't lose hope, but don't misinterpret the mission of the project either. Coccyx Bloccyx (talk) 19:44, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - The show is definitely relevant. Granted, there aren't a ton of "third-party" references attached to this article, but the show is relevant. In just 4 years, it has grown to 16 markets now (they've added six since the last time it was up for deletion), and it keeps getting stronger. I've been listening to the show for over 2 years since it's come to Albany, and I will admit, it's not for everyone. But, there are people out there who find it entertaining, as well as a show that's good at heart. They do excellent work for Ataxia-telangiectasia, as well as their Holiday Break-Ins they do at Christmas time (giving Christmas presents to those less fortunate). They do this not only Grand Rapids, but ALL markets (with the help of local law enforcement, friends of people who have fallen on hard times, and the radio stations where the show is heard). I'd say that's relevant enough to warrant an article on Wikipedia for crying out loud. I've seen articles with one sentence written in the subject on this site, and the least that could happen is keeping a page that is actually quite informative to people who are receiving the show in a new market. Sowie05 (talk) 02:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: Also, if you now look, there are plenty of third-party sources that would merit keeping this articleSowie05 (talk) 15:18, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - In addition to the size of their listening area, I also believe that they should be mentioned for their charity work. They've done a great deal trying to raise awareness about Ataxia-Telangiectasia and are closely associated with the A-T Children's Project.  The Free Beer and Hot Wings Team is already being organized for the 2009 Disney Marathon (verified here: http://www.communityatcp.org/NETCOMMUNITY/Page.aspx?pid=793&srcid=795&frtid=222 .)  Last year's team raised almost $50,000. The holiday break-in is an orchestrated event across all listening areas by the radio show.  All items given are donated and all the people helping out are volunteers. Anneten (talk)
 * Keep- If we wanted well researched and documented articles, we would read Encyclopedia Brittanica. If you don't know what that is, look it up.  Wikipedia is user generated...a hangout for fact checker flunkies.  I only come here as a result of some humerous link from another site, as this place is often the source of a good laugh.  That being said, the Free Beer and Hotwings Show is a solid source of entertainment that does have a wide following and broadcast range.  I'm sure they are more notable and relevant than some celebrities listed on Wiki (see Nicole Richie).  They also do great charity work as mentioned above.  This deletion issue has generated a fair amount of broadcasted publicity as well.  In the words of the viral video Brittany Spears fan, "Leave Free Beer and Hotwings alone".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grc207 (talk • contribs) 13:26, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - It's definitely note worthy as they do a lot of charity work in several states. Here is an interview with the hosts providing some of those details. http://www.bitboard.com/spotlight/freebeer.htm comment added by Werdtoyadonkay (talk • contribs) 14:22, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.