Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Hole In The Wall

This page is an archive of the discussion surrounding the proposed deletion of the page entitled The Hole In The Wall.

This page is kept as an historic record.

Due to lack of consensus to delete, the admin evaluating the discussion converted the page to a disambiguation of more common meanings.

The Hole In The Wall
Non-notable pub, dictdef of a slang term, neither one of which merits an article. RickK 10:16, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. --jni 13:06, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notable pub, expandable dictdef of a slang term, both of which merit an article. anthony &#35686;&#21578; 13:24, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Please could you explain how the pub is notable? I know of several pubs I'd consider notable for historical reasons (Dirty Dick's in London, for example, or the Eagle and Child in Oxford) but I'm unable to google up any reason why this place would be particularly encyclopaedic. If you have more details about the pub, please share them to help other people make an informed vote. Also, since you consider the definition expandable, please mention what information Hole in the wall could contain which couldn't be covered by Automated teller machine. Pnot 01:48, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * All pubs are notable. There is plenty of room in Wikipedia to have articles on them all.  As for information about hole in the wall which shouldn't be covered by Automated teller machine, the term is commonly used for much more than just ATMs.  According to dictionary.com, it can be used for any "small unpretentious out-of-the-way place".  At the very least it should be a disambig page rather than a redirect.  In any case, I've noticed the different capitalisation, so my vote would be to keep the pub at Hole in the Wall (perhaps as a disambig page) and make hole in the wall a disambig page which would point to ATM and other meanings.  anthony &#35686;&#21578; 02:40, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Hole in the Wall is a very common term in the UK, and would warrant an article if that part of it was expanded (and perhaps moved to Hole in the wall). The pub name is one of the less common ones in the UK and I'd go for removing that info because it's just not notable.  Unless the ATM info is expanded past a dicdef before voting is up I say delete -- Graham  &#9786; | Talk 13:31, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * It's my understanding that the question of a dictdef is whether or not it is expandable, not whether or not it is actually expanded prior to the VfD time running out. anthony &#35686;&#21578; 14:46, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me. Either that or twisting my meaning for your own purpose.  I don't think dictionary definitions belong in wikipedia, they belong in wiktionary.  Unless this is expanded (and let's face it, salvagable pages normally do get cleaned up before the end of the vfd period if they're worth saving) it should be deleted. -- Graham  &#9786; | Talk 14:55, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I understand you perfectly. You are saying we should delete the article unless it is expanded.  But this contradicts my understanding of the deletion policy, which reserves deletion for articles which can never be more than a dictionary definition, not for articles which just currently aren't more than a dictionary definition. anthony &#35686;&#21578; 02:36, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Common term in UK, Hole in the Wall should perhaps point directly to ATM entry? User:skukok
 * Above edit by User:144.32.128.73. Skukok, could you please log in to place your vote?  many thanks. -- Graham  &#9786; | Talk 14:40, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: Once one explains what a "hole in the wall is," one must either go to discuss the Hole in the wall gang or explain that it's the name for any dive anywhere. It's a common term in the US, too, for a nowhere.  Information on any particular business is wholly inappropriate.  The dictdef cannot be encyclopedic.  It can only ever be a definition.  Geogre 15:03, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * As an English pub name, I think it does have some noteworthiness for the name's origins. There's a Hole in the Wall in York which claims to be on the site of a debtors' prison -- the "hole in the wall" was for the charitable to pass donations in. There's another in Bristol whose original "hole" was a spyhole used to watch out for the press gang. But in any case, these probably belong in an article on pub names rather than their own article, and specific pubs are definitely out unless notability can be established. For now, I think a delete and redirect to Automated teller machine would do nicely, since it's commonly used in Britain with this meaning. Pnot 01:48, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete and redirect to Automatic teller machine. It's a very common term here, more so than ATM and as much so as "cashpoint". &mdash; OwenBlacker 14:52, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
 * Should be a disambiguation page, with links to The Hole in the Wall Gang (which I think is the same as the Wild Bunch); as well as the Hole in the Wall, Wyoming, that gave them their name; ATM; a mention of its American usage; and maybe a brief mention of the pub(s), if notable. -R. fiend 17:03, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup. Verifiable and factually accurate. --[[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 13:17, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue or the deletion should be placed on other relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.