Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Jim Morrison Triptych


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus - No clear consensus clear after two re-listings with no further discussion. (non-admin closure) MaxnaCarter (talk) 03:58, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

The Jim Morrison Triptych

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Insufficient Secondary RS to establish N. T. E. Breitenbach is probably notable by virtue of his Rome Prize, though the article seems a bit looong for the scope of his career. Proverbidioms seems like it passes notability on its own b/c of its significant cultural impact. But this one seems like a stretch. A combo of WP:OR and a bit of belief that notability is inherited from Morrison. The creator/primary author of the article is a WP:SPA working on these three articles. Theredproject (talk) 22:32, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Theredproject (talk) 22:32, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, a 2010 article which has been improved over the years and seems well sourced. Jim Morrison collaborated on the painting and defined its contents and subjects, so this is not inherited web-centered notability (per nom link) but a genuine collaboration between two artists. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:31, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete seems well sourced is absurd. There is one on-line source, the website of the creator of the painting that is the subject of the article. The book by Silva has an ISBN number that yields not results, is not listed in worldcat and doesn't appear to be held in any libraries for us to consult. Davis does mention Breitenbach in Jim Morrison: Life, Death, Legend, on page 390: "He even had the album jacket in mind when he replied to a letter from a college art student, T.E. Breitenbach, who had sent Jim samples of his work ...". That is not well-sourced, that is very poorly sourced. This painting is in no collection and has not been the subject of independent, critical reviews. The only coverage it has received is in Wikipedia and Wikipedia clones. Vexations (talk) 14:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The Davis quote continues past the ellipses and appears to be quoted in the article. I don't have the book, but if quoted correctly and not misrepresented in the article it would be a good source from a major Morrison bio. Randy Kryn (talk) 16:59, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That's what ellipses are for: they indicate an omission. The complete text is:
 * "Around this time, Jim decided to record another solo poetry session. If the work sounded good, he told his friends, he could release a spoken word album. He spoke with movie composer Lalo Schifrin about providing orchestral settings for some of these poems. He even had the album jacket in mind when he replied to a letter from a college art student, T. E. Breitenbach, who had sent Jim samples of his work—clearly showing that Jim was actively and creatively engaged in the preproduction of the album". It goes on to say: "The letter was typed, probably by Jim’s secretary, Kathy Lisciandro, dated October 9, 1970. In it he asked Breitenbach to do a triptych, the left panel depicting “a radiant moonlit beach and an endless stream of naked young couples running silently along the water’s edge,” where “a tiny infant grins at the universe, and around his crib stand several ancient, old people.” In the center panel would be “a modern city or metropolis of the future at noon, insane with activity,” and the right panel “a view through a car windshield at night on a long straight desert highway.” These vivid scenes of death and rebirth were reflective of the new beginning Jim himself was seeking. Jim closed the letter by assuring Breitenbach that if he could create “something related to these themes” in the next five months, Jim would use it".
 * It continues: "Included with Jim’s letter were signed first editions of The New Creatures and An American Prayer. In this letter, Jim seems to have two recent poems in mind, “Vast Radiant Beach” and “Come, They Crooned, the Ancient Ones.” T. E. Breitenbach finished the triptych a few months later, in 1971, but was informed by Kathy that James Morrison had moved to France for a while."
 * In my view, and I actually made an effort to track down and read the sources, that is not a sufficient basis for an article about a painting that has generated no critical discourse at all. It is an insignificant work by an art student who received a letter from Jim Morrison suggesting that he (Breitenbach) could make something he (Morrison) might use. The painting might have some significance if Morrison ever saw the painting and decided to use it for an album cover, be he never did. Vexations (talk) 19:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The full quote easily confirms the bio as a major reputable source for the page. Not an easy one to spin any other way - Morrison took the artist up on his offer and then described exactly what he wanted in the painting. This was an agreed-upon collab. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * He didn't the artist up on his offer, he left for France and didn't use it. Vexations (talk) 19:32, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * He, well, died in Paris? Pined for the fjords etc. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:37, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * He, well, died in Paris? Pined for the fjords etc. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:37, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star   Mississippi  15:46, 15 May 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Arbitrarily0   ( talk ) 08:24, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete or Merge into T. E. Breitenbach. On it's own there is not enough evidence to claim this is a notable painting, and I agree the sourcing is too weak to support GNG. Netherzone (talk) 21:02, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.